In this special Thanksgiving episode, Jenny Beth Martin sits down with historian David Barton, President of WallBuilders, to uncover the true story of the Pilgrims, the real origins of Thanksgiving, and how their faith, courage, and biblical principles shaped the foundation of American liberty. Barton explains the Pilgrims’ extraordinary journey, their covenant community, the profound influence of the Geneva Bible, the development of private property and free-market economics in Plymouth, and the stark contrast between Plymouth and Jamestown. He also exposes common historical myths, including misinformation about slavery and the 1619 Project, and shows why Thanksgiving remains essential for understanding America’s blessings, freedoms, and constitutional heritage. This uplifting conversation reminds us why gratitude, faith, and truth still matter today.
In this special Thanksgiving episode, Jenny Beth Martin is joined by David Barton, President of WallBuilders, for an in-depth look at the true history behind the Pilgrims, the first Thanksgiving, and the biblical foundations that helped shape America. Barton walks through the Pilgrims’ escape from religious persecution, their dangerous voyage on the Mayflower, and the miracles that allowed them to survive their first brutal winters in the New World.
He explains how the Pilgrims established self-government through the Mayflower Compact, why the Geneva Bible transformed Western civilization, and how Plymouth’s respect for private property, free markets, education, and individual liberty set it apart from the Jamestown colony. Barton also addresses common historical myths, including misconceptions about Native relations, slavery, and the 1619 narrative, providing documented historical context often ignored in modern education.
Jenny Beth and David also discuss America’s long tradition of Thanksgiving proclamations, including those issued by George Washington, Samuel Adams, and Abraham Lincoln. They explore why gratitude, faith, and national remembrance remain vital today and why America’s blessings cannot be taken for granted.
Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the Pilgrims’ worldview, the biblical roots of American freedom, and the importance of teaching true history to future generations.
For more information on WallBuilders, visit wallbuilders.com.
Guest: David Barton, President, WallBuilders | X: @DavidBartonWB
Host: Jenny Beth Martin, Honorary Chairman, Tea Party Patriots Action | X: @jennybethm
Narrator (00:00:14):
Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:00:19):
From the stormy Atlantic to the shores of Plymouth, the pilgrims came seeking not gold or conquest, but freedom. They carried the Geneva Bible, built a covenant community, and endured the harshest winter imaginable. Yet through sacrifice and faith, they gave thanks to God our Heavenly Father. That spirit of gratitude through trial, through abundance, became the foundation of this nation. Today we remember the real story of Thanksgiving, not the myth, not revision, but truth, the faith, freedom, and thankfulness that shaped America. I'm Jenny Beth Martin and this is a Jenny Beth Show. Today we're joined by one of America's leading historians, the founder of Wall Builders, David Barton, whose research has helped countless Americans rediscover the truth of our founding faith and freedom. David, thank you so much for joining me today.
David Barton (00:01:12):
Jenny Beth, thanks for having me. We appreciate you and all you do too as well. Thank you for having me.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:01:17):
Thank you. So David, many people think of Thanksgiving today as football, food and family, but the first Thanksgiving was about survival and faith. Can you walk us through what really happened in Plymouth in 1621?
David Barton (00:01:29):
Well, before I even hit that that time, I want to back up a little bit to kind of get perspective because the pilgrims, you have to understand they weren't a political movement. They weren't trying to start a colony. They were nothing but a congregation of church people in England, but they weren't Anglican, which was the English state established denomination. And so their pastor, John Greenwood, actually made the audacious statement, at least back then today, it's a simple statement, but he said, look, we're Christians and Jesus Christ is head of the Christian Church. And for making that simple orthodox statement, queen Elizabeth said, no, I'm head of the Christian Church. And she executed the pastor for saying that Jesus Christ was head of the Christian Church. So the Pilgrim society, it's probably safer for us if we leave town. So they end up going to Holland where there is religious liberty.
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And in Holland they continue to have their beliefs and they actually, they had their own printing press there. And in Holland they printed a document called the Perth Assembly, which just simply set forth their beliefs. This is why we think it's okay for us to be a congregation church not part of England. And that anger that British so much that they sent troops into Holland to chase the pilgrims out and get 'em completely gone out of Europe. So that's when the pilgrims say, okay, we're going to New World. The king's allowed to let us live if we will just go to the new world, and that's what we're going to do. So they contract for two ships, the Speedwell and the Mayflower, and they're planning to come to the New world. But there's a bunch of British sailors on the Speedwell that don't want to go to the new world.
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They don't want to get in that wild country. And so they actually apparently drilled holes in the ship and just taken a water and we can't go. Sorry. So out of the two ships, only one made it, and that was the Mayflower. And so the Mayflower arrives in December of 1620 with half the congregation, the pastor of the congregation was on the Speedwell, so he didn't even make it with them. So they arrived in 1620 and on the way over it's about 66 days and about 66 days of storms is what they had. And so they've been chased out of Hall, and I don't fully understand this except providentially, the British destroyed all of their type, all of their print stuff. So they couldn't print any more that would make the British mad. But they let 'em keep the printing press. So the printing press is one of the old big hand presses.
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It's got what they call a jack screw in it, which is the big screw thing. When they pull it, it presses down, pushes the paper down. So they took that with them. Well, while they're on the way over, they get in the storm that literally broke the main beam on the ship and that's the beam that holds the ship together. And so this thing is now collapsing on itself and they providentially had this printing press and they put that jcrew under it and cranked the beam back up in the position. And so they made it because they brought a printing press without any of the printing equipment that you would need with it. And you go, why don't you bring a printing press? And there's just so many fun miracles along the way with the pilgrim. So they make into December of 1620 and that December of 1620, that's a bad time to arrive in Massachusetts.
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And so they try to get set up in their first settlement and half of them died that first winter. Half the ones on the Mayflower, there was 102 on the Mayflower, then you had right at 51, 52 die in that first winter. So they come out of that first winter and they get introduced to the natives. One of those natives is Samo said, who has some broken English and just shocks them. They can't believe one of the natives knows how to speak English. And they get real excited and ask him questions. He said, I don't speak your English that well. He went and got a guy named Sto and brought her back and Sto was fluent in English. He had been kidnapped a couple of decades earlier and he was being sold as a slave in Spain when a bunch of Catholic priests bought him and freed him and 26 other Indians.
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And he's over in Spain looking at these great cathedrals and carriages and horses and streets and stuff he's never seen. And so he stayed for a number of years in Europe, spent a lot of years in England, then decides he's coming back to the new world, but now he speaks English fluently. He knows how the white guy thinks. He learns all about 'em. And so Quato is introduced to the pilgrims and ends up kind of saying, these guys don't have a clue what they're doing. They need some help. And so he really feels like God's called him to help train the pilgrims and help 'em live in the new world. And so they go through that next winter and it is really a tough time. They lose another half of what was left. But as they're going into that winter, they're so thankful because now they have had a harvest.
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And at that point in time before they hit that second winter, they have a time of Thanksgiving. And it was a three day festival. It was not like what we have today. But Jenny Beth, you mentioned athletics and other things, food, it was about that for three days they and the Indians, and by the way people say, oh, they stole the land from the Indians and bad relationships. No, it was a great relationship. There were only 26 adults left of the pilgrims and there were 91 Indian Braves at this three day athletic competition and fun and festival they had. So if the nat had been really ticked at the pilgrims, they would've wiped 'em out in a heartbeat. But the longest lasting treaty in American history is between the pilgrims and the Wampanoag Indians and great relations they had. And so over those three days of his time of thanking God, a time of appreciating the friends that God had given them a time of feasting and food and the Indians provided most of the food, the pilgrims had not yet really learned how to live in that land. But it was just, that's where the Thanksgiving festival comes from and the fact that we have athletics today and food and family and fellowship, it was kind of like that back then. But for them it was three days, but it that's the beginning of the first Thanksgiving.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:07:10):
That's amazing. David. Now when they came over, did they plan to land in Plymouth or not?
David Barton (00:07:20):
This is another very providential thing. They planned to land in Virginia. They were sent to Virginia and for 66 days the storms kept blowing them further and further north and the more they would turn their ship to the south, the stronger the winds got blowing them north. And so as a result, they ended up in a place that was outside their charter and good for them because had they arrived in that Jamestown area under the charter of Jamestown, they would never have been able to do what they did. But being outside of that, it gave them the freedom to create their own governing structure, to create their own colony, to create their own laws. We don't have to have what the king says. And if they'd gone into that Virginia area, that's the king and that's where Jamestown is. They would've been under a whole different system.
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So they didn't realize at the time, and a lot of times when God and his providence is doing things in us, it doesn't seem fun. And so they have 66 days of bad weather. That's not fun, but it was necessary to get them out of that Virginia area and get them up to an area where they were free to start something brand new. And so that really was a very providential thing. By the way, just to show you, I think a lot of times when we think about a loss of a life, whether it's an accident or a tragedy or even something like abortion, we don't think about the impact that one life might make. But on the trip over there was a young man, I think he was 20 or 21, but his name was John Halland. And so John Halland, everybody is down in the hold of the ship and they're as sick as they can be, all the storms and waves and you can't go up on top and he is got to get out of there for a while.
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So he goes up on top and a wave washes him overboard. And back in that day, you just didn't have people who knew how to swim by and large, that was just not the thing. He gets washed overboard and nobody's up there on top because they're all in the ship because of the storm. And lo and behold, there's a line that happens to be dragging behind the ship that he grabs a hold of that line. And so he's being pulled behind the ship and then finally somebody notices he's gone, they get up on top and they find him on that rope and they pull him back in and he survives, which is a nice cool story. The difference is now the pilgrims have what they call the John Howan Society. John Howan, that one guy, and he ended up marrying when they got the Plymouth, that one guy, there are now a million descendants of that. One guy, John Hallan in his line has three US presidents and that guy drowned in the ocean. Were missing three US presidents who were missing a million people who live because of him, including several Academy Award winners in Hollywood, several scientists. It's just amazing to find a guy like that where you can say, this is the impact of one life and this is why every life does matter and does have impact.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:10:03):
That is truly amazing. Which three presidents do you know off the top of your head?
David Barton (00:10:08):
The bushes, and it may have been FDR actually, but three of the presidents and I know the bush were part of it, and that mean both bushes and I think it may have been FDR was the other one.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:10:22):
Wow, that is remarkable. That is just absolutely amazing. Every single life makes a difference. And it's hard sometimes for us right now today to understand what kind of impact we are going to have, but that it's a ripple effect. So what we're doing today could make a difference in a hundred, 200 years from now. We just never know what kind of seeds we're planting.
David Barton (00:10:47):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And it's hard to tell at the time you're doing something. The pilgrims, when they had that Thanksgiving, they didn't realize that was going to be a national event for the next 400 years. I mean, they were just doing something with their friends and they were so grateful that they had people who helped 'em survive and help 'em live there because again, in two winters you've lost three fourths of the people that they came. So you're down to a very small amount of people. And if you can imagine being grateful in those situations, they were grateful to both those who survived. And so in Plymouth, if you ever go there, they have Burial Hill where they buried so many of those early people, kind of a mass grave up there on top with mass sarcophagus. But it's amazing to see their attitude and how they understood. But at the time they had no clue that what they were doing would be so momentous that from them would come New England, which would be essentially the essence of liberty. That's a cradle of liberty. So much came out of there that has shaped us ever since and they had no clue at the time it was happening. It was just a tough life, a hard life, hard doing everyday's work hard, doing the plannings hard, doing the things they did. And lo and behold, look how blessed we are as a result of what they did.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:12:02):
Absolutely. David, I want to talk about some of what they did and how it affected America, but before we do that, let's go back and talk a little bit more about what was that first year for them? Because we sit there and we say, okay, and then they gave thanks. They went through this hard trial coming to America and we are almost glossing over. Only half of them survived. There were 26 people I think you just said, who were from England who were at that first Thanksgiving that only half survived. I think that's something we can't even imagine. If we looked around in a room and knew that only one out of every two person was going to die, what kind of effect that would be on us? And then to be able to still give thanks after that.
David Barton (00:12:53):
And let me clarify, there were 26 adults at that first Thanksgiving. There were 51 total. They had the kids there. So if the natives had been really mad at these guys, there were only 26 adults they had to kill and they didn't. They had great relations again, 54 year treaty, longest treating American history. But these folks, their faith is what grounded them and their faith is what gave them a perspective. These weren't like a lot of church going, people today that kind of do this as part of what we do every week and we get home from church and watch football games and now their faith guided them in so many areas for which we're thankful. And just give you an example, their pastor, John Robinson who did not make it with them, he was on the speedwell, the ship that didn't come. He said, when you get to that new land, he said, you leave behind the darkness we've had in Europe.
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He said, you have a Bible, you take and do it. This says, and you make this the guidebook. And so when they arrived off the coast of Massachusetts, they created the Mayflower Compact and the Mayflower Compact is kind of a covenantal document as Bible people. They realized covenants is how God has dealt with Abraham and how he is dealt with so many other things. And so he wants a people that are committed that are covenanted. And so they create the Mayflower compact, which is the first civil document done in America. So they have that, and then when they get off, they said, now we don't want the government like we had in England and we want something different. And they look in the Bible. The Bible illustrates seven different forms of government and they said, we like the Hebrew republic. And so the Hebrew Republic, after God delivered 'em out of slavery, took 'em out to the mountain, he gave him 613 laws that became their civil code.
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And at that point in time, Exodus 1821 says, choose out from among you leaders of tens, fifties, hundreds and thousands. Choose able men such as fear of God and men of truth, hate and covenant. And says, alright, wait a minute. We're choosing our own leaders and what we would call the local, the county, the state, and the federal leaders tens, fifties, hundreds, thousands. So they say, we're going to choose our own leaders. And so that's what they set up. But the other thing they did that was so significant was back when God created the Hebrew republic, so 613 laws, he said, Moses, you're over the civil laws and Aaron, you're over the temple. Now both of those guys were God guys and both of 'em followed God's word, but God didn't have one person running both church and government like England did, like the kings and queens of France, the kings and queen of Spain and of Italy and of everywhere else.
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One person tells you what your theology is and what your government is. So when they got here, one of the first things they did, they said, we're going to have elections. And the Bible doesn't tell us how often to have elections, but that's what they had with the Hebrew Republic. So we're going to have elections and we're going to do it every year. And so starting at that point in time, what they did was they had elections and they elected their governor and they elected their civil leaders and they elected their pastor. And every year they had an election for pastor, and one year the governor might be the pastor the next year you can be elected to that, but you didn't hold the office at the same time. And so that's something we have inherited from them for which we are very appreciative. Now, people have gone too far and said, oh, that's separation church and state.
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No, they didn't make one secular and one spiritual. They were both God oriented and you could serve in either one and you didn't have to stay in one, but you couldn't do both at the same time. And so that's really important, something that they gave us as they landed. And then what happens is there is a book here, I'm going to pull this out. This is a book that goes back to 1623 and this book is called Mor Relation. This is where we find out about the first Thanksgiving, what happened in that first Thanksgiving. And it was because Edward Winslow wrote about it and he was one of the early elected governors. Now, John William Bradford, by the way, is the most famous pilgrim governor. I'm going to pull out a big book here, this big book right here. These are the journals of William Bradford. So this is where he recorded and he was elected governor 30 times, so 30 years as governor.
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But Winslow who did this stuff in more relation, he was also elected governor several times. And so every year you have an election, and it's out of this book here that we know what happened in Thanksgiving because Winslow was there, he was part of it. He was one of the governor's right hand men at that time. And so he talks about it. And so we really do have a lot of knowledge of what they did. And not only did they set up a great government that lasted, they set up respect for private property and they would not take any property they landed on or anything else until they had a treaty from the Wampanoag Indians saying It's okay for you to have this property. We've exchanged goods for it. And so everything they did, the Indians were satisfied with it, they were satisfied. Both parties were satisfied.
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So the of private property, unlike many other colonies who took land from natives, not so with the pilgrims, the Bible teaches private property, respect that private property. And so this is what made that difference for these guys. And this is a Bible. This one is from 1590, it's called a Geneva Bible. It's the first Bible printed in English. And on the side of it, it has all sorts of commentaries up and down it. And this is from all the reformers that for the previous 400 years have been saying, guys, we got to get back to the Bible. The kings and queens haven't been letting people read the Bible. We got to read it ourselves. And this is where so much commentary comes from on so many things they did. And so much of what they did has become part of the American system that makes us so different from Europe and everywhere else. And a few people today know that it goes back to actually the pilgrims and what was done in that Bible. So
Jenny Beth Martin (00:18:39):
Talk a little bit more about that Bible. There are things in the margins of the Bible. Talk a little bit about that. And you said it's the first one that was in English. Did the Queen or kings in England have one that was written in English or not? And just elaborate on that more please.
David Barton (00:19:03):
Yeah, kind of the history of the Bible is pretty significant because what happens, and going back to the concept of the pilgrims that you elect your pastor separate from your governor way back in three 90 AD, and let's back up even further, when Jesus Christ was on earth and he had the 12 apostles and one falls, and now you have a replacement and Christianity spreads across the world. So the Christian faith is now really much of a global faith, and it was a voluntary faith. Coercion was not part of it at all until three 90 Ad when Emperor Theodosius, who was the world emperor, Roman emperor rules the world, he became a Christian. And when he became a Christian, he made an announcement. The announcement is I become a Christian and you're all going to become Christians or I'm going to kill you. This is the first time we have a state established church.
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He now makes it that if you don't do the religion, I tell you you're going to die. And that became standard for the next 1200 years. And so as you go through the crusades and all those other periods, that's where whatever the religion the king tells you, that's what you're going to be. So if you're in France, you will be a Catholic. If you're in England, you will be an Anglican. If you're, you're in Germany, you're going to be a Lutheran. I mean the king tells you what that's going to be. You don't make that choice. And since the king tells you what it's going to be, why does it matter if you read the Bible or not? If you read it different from what he reads it, you're going to get killed. You just do what he tells you. And so this is when we get into a period of high illiteracy for nearly a thousand years, we call it the dark Ages, and that's when people just did what the king said, and you serve the king and your life is in his hands.
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And we go through that period in about really about 900 years after Emper theodosius this, and we call that a state established church. The government tells you what church to go to. It was at that point in time that some Catholic monks were reading the scripture said, look, what we're doing is not what the scripture says and this is not right. And so they start saying, this is what the Bible says and the king's wrong. And that begins what's called the reformation. And it's kind of a back to the Bible movement. Pull the Bible out of the dusty bins, learn to read, get an education. And by the way, this is where early elementary education started. So you could learn to read the Bible and read what it said. So you can tell if what the king is telling you is right. And so this is kind of the growth of what led to eventually the Renaissance in Europe, but it starts with the reformation.
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And so the kings don't like this. And early people who try to get the Bible back in the common language for everyone like Wick, cliff and Tyndall, the king and queen, burn 'em at the stake. I mean, if you're going to teach everybody to read the Bible, we're going to eliminate you. And this is the climate in which the pilgrims have come out. And so at the time of the pilgrims, their background is reformation. And so this is a Bible that is a result of the reformation. This is the first Bible printed in English, and this is a Bible where that every individual can own a Bible for themselves. Now that's significant. You see this Bible, it's not particularly small. This is called the world's first pocket Bible because this is the first Bible people could carry around with them and own for themselves. Bibles prior to this are about four times as large and they're changed to the pulpit of churches.
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You cannot take a Bible with you. It stays in the church and we'll tell you what it means. This is the first time you can start reading it for yourself. And the more they read out of this, the more they said, look, it addresses economics, it addresses justice. It addresses the legal process. It addresses due process. Matter of fact, point to this book right here, pull this book out. There is a book here called Federal Practice and Procedure. Now, if you happen to practice federal law, you'll know this because there's 169 volumes to practice federal law. This happens to be volume number 30, which is the rules of evidence. And this legal book points out that what we call the due process in the Bill of Rights, the fourth through the eighth amendment, the right to confront your accuser, et cetera, they point back and said, it came out of the Geneva Bible.
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It came out with the pilgrims and puritans who said, look what the Bible says about due process. So John eight 10 in here is where we get the right to confront your accuser, also the right to compel witnesses your behalf. You find that in Proverbs 1817, the right to speak in your own defense is Acts 22, 1. So as people are getting into the Bible from themselves, you have a growth of liberty, a growth of freedom. Hey, God doesn't want us to be bound by a government tell us everything to do and what we believe and how to act. So it really is that Geneva Bible that is the heart soul. And so if you go in the US capitol, there is a massive painting of the pilgrims kneeling in prayer gathered around a Geneva Bible. It's open, and actually the Bible is so large in the painting, you can actually read the words and it's a Geneva Bible. And so that painting is 14 feet high, 20 feet wide and the US capitol and the rotunda. And that is the really founding of civil government and civil liberty the way we've come to know it in America. We had a long dark road to get through for 1500 years in Europe before we got to where we could do what we wanted to do here. But that Geneva Bible was central to what we enjoy in America today,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:24:23):
David, it's actually remarkable because we take for granted having a Bible that is so small it really can't fit in a pocket, your back pocket or your breast pocket or what have you. We have Or
David Barton (00:24:38):
Even smaller than that. Yeah,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:24:40):
Exactly. We can just put it on our phone and carry it with us and look up whatever we want. And if we don't remember exactly what the verse is, put a few words in and say, where is this in the Bible? And you'll get every reference to it. So we just take that for granted. The fact that the Bibles used to be chained to the pulpit, you couldn't leave with a Bible that what you're showing from the Geneva Bible is the first Bible that people could take and actually read and study. I think that's something worth just highlighting. This is major, this is major for the development of our country. But it is major for all of Western society, isn't it?
David Barton (00:25:19):
It is. And you saying that, I'm going to back up a little further and mention how big a blessing this Virginia Bible is because if it had not been for Gutenberg and the movable type press that he came up with, we couldn't have this. We would still have Bible. And we have some Bibles in our collection that are before you have the movable type press. Now this is the first real mass produced Bible, so you can mass produce this with that press. You can print thousands of pages at a time before you have to redo it. But prior to that, how did you get the scriptures? Well, you had to have parchment because we didn't have handmade paper yet. Not in that way. And so you had parchment, and parchment comes from either sheep skin or cow skins, and you had to have someone with a quill pen write the entire Bible out like the Dead Sea scrolls.
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And so if you wanted a Bible back in the day before the Geneva Bible came out, if you're English and wanted a Bible, you either have to buy a herd of 200 cows or 600 sheep because that's how many you have to kill to get enough skin to make enough pages to write the Bible on. So if I want to go buy a Bible before the pilgrims and puritans in this Geneva Bible and movable type press with Gutenberg, I first go find a herd of 600 sheep or 200 cows. I take it to the butcher, kill it, but then I take it to the tanner, they tan it, and then I take it to the scribe who writes on each page. Then I take it to a book binder who puts it together and puts a leather cover on it. And in today's money, you're looking at about a quarter million dollars to get a Bible back in what it would take to buy the animals and the labor to do that.
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And you compare that to what the pilgrims had at their hands. And this is the first Bible printed in English, and it's a Bible that every individual can have that is a revolution that should be mentioned more often. But again, what Gutenberg did is what allowed this to shape America the way that it did and having people like the pilgrims who were so committed to this more so than they were to the government to be willing to challenge the government and lose their own lives if need be. That's the kind of stuff that we really do take for granted.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:27:33):
Yeah, thank you for elaborating on that and for highlighting that. And as I was researching for this episode, I was listening to some of the past talks that you've given and listened to what you talked about with the Geneva Bible. And I probably heard those talks before, but for some reason this time it just really struck me and I wanted to make sure we went over that. So thank you for doing that. Now I want to go back to something that you mentioned a minute ago. You were talking about how the pilgrims had respect for private property and how important this was and foundational to our government. How was that? I know they have property, it wasn't the King's property, just in a simple sentence that's what was going on, but explain more about how this was different than what they had previously, how it set the stage for what we have today in America where we respect private property. And also you mentioned that they weren't taking property without having a treaty with the Indians, but explained that because what we often hear today from I would say revisionist historians, is that we stole the land. So it explained some of that, so we can set some of the records straight on that.
David Barton (00:28:55):
Yeah, it's really important for bible minded people to understand that they don't get everything they want unless they go through the right process to get that. And so the pilgrims understood that they didn't own the land in America, but somebody did. And if they wanted that land, they're not going to be like Europe where they go take it by force and they have a war to take it from 'em. They want to do the right way. And so if you are familiar with the 10 Commandments, all like they were, it says, don't steal. Well, that's taking what somebody else's. And so when they got here, they recognized they're on somebody else's property, they're on somebody else's land, none of it belongs to them. They've never set foot on that place before. They can't claim it as theirs. They can't just say, because we're stronger and we have boom, boom sticks that we're going to take it away from you.
(00:29:41):
That's not the way Christians act and the way they read the Bible. And so that's where they did because of Quato and because of Alite who introduced him to Wanko and Quato who took him to Chief where they said, Hey, can we buy this land that we don't know what it's worth? And how do you negotiate when Indians aren't used to selling land and you've never bought land from Indians before, but they come to an degree member, both sides are happy. And that's the big deal with any contract. Both sides need to be happy, then you'll keep that contract. And so both sides were happy with it. The chief got stuff that he didn't expect to get, and these guys got property they were able to build on and build home zone and build communities zone. And so from that private property concept actually came their economic system because when they came out of Europe, the king and queen on everything, and if you doubt that they can take it away from you, if you took 'em off, they can ban you and your family from owning land forever, which we banned in the Constitution.
(00:30:41):
There's three clauses in the Constitution that deal with the fact that in Europe you could ban someone from owning property and you can make the great great, great, great great grandkids pay the price for what great, great, great granddad did a hundred years ago. We banned that in the Constitution, but that was a biblical concept. So as they go through and see this private property and they've got great relations, and again, the longest lasting treaty, they also have this thing of individual property because when they came in the book of Acts with the early church, it was what might be called Christian socialism or communitarianism is another word for it. They were a community and they just shared with one another because they loved one another and wanted to help one another. And that's a great deal. But there comes a time when, and this is in Acts two and Acts four in the Bible, you find this Christian communitarianism over here in America.
(00:31:34):
It was really hard work. I mean, this is a wilderness. It's not like you got farmlands and they're from Europe and know how to farm. They don't know how to hunt and do stuff in the wild over here. And so, and other Indians show them how to live over here and how to do E and what kind of stuff lives in the waters around them. And so as they're working out, they're living here, it's hard. I mean, it is a hard time. And so what happens is Governor Bradford, one of the early governors, one who served 30 terms, governor Bradford says that because it was so hard, some of 'em became pretty lazy and we're just waiting on everybody else to help supply because whatever brought in, they just shared it with everybody, shared it with the whole community congregation, but it was hard work and hard labor and some of 'em just didn't want to do that.
(00:32:20):
And so they started having productivity problems. So productivity started dropping because everything belonged to the community, not the individual. And so because they were in that Geneva Bible and because it talks very clearly about private property and it talks about economic systems, they found some verses that were very important. Two Thessalonians three 10, the Bible says, if you don't work, you don't eat. And they said, man, we got people living among us who are believers and Christians, but they're not working and they're eating and they're taking from us. So that's our new law. The Bible says, if you don't work, you don't eat well. That's your first incentive to work right there is if you want something to eat, you're going to have to go to work. And the second thing they found was over in one Timothy five, eight where it says, if you don't provide for your own household, you're worse than an infidel and you've denied the faith.
(00:33:08):
So if I don't provide for my household, so what happened is in 1627, they introduced what we now call the free market system. Actually, it had five Bible verses. There was Luke 19, Matthew 25, Matthew 22, Thessalonians three, and one Timothy five. And those bible verses created an economic system. And so everyone had property, they all had the property. That's your land. You make it provide, it's for your family. And if you don't make it provide, that's on you, it's not on us, it's not on the community, it's up to you. And so Governor Bradford records that when they went to the free market system in 1627, within two years, their prosperity had increased sevenfold, and they never again had a time of born in the Massachusetts colony. That became the most prosperous colony of all 13 in the US with the Massachusetts colony. And it's because they went to that free market system much earlier down in Virginia.
(00:34:05):
They kept the Colonial King system for a long time right up until the American Revolution up in Massachusetts. They had been in the free market system for a long time and it came out of the Bible. And that's another thing that we credit the pilgrims with is that Bible is very, very practical. It's good for our faith, but it's also good for economics. It's good for education. They start the first common school system. They made sure that every kid got an education, boy and girl. Matter of fact, in that backwoods colony, Massachusetts, the literacy rate for women was higher than it was anywhere in Europe. And we're talking Lisbon and we're talking in London, we're talking in all these Madrid, all these great cities, higher literacy rate for women in that backwood colony of America because they didn't educate women in Europe. But we did over here because we knew that everyone needed to be able to read the Bible, which meant you needed to be able to read, which meant we needed schools.
(00:34:57):
And so actually I have the very first public education law right here, pulled this book out right here. This is their code of 16, 50, 16, 43 and 1647. They published the first two education laws. And those laws make it really clear that you got to have an education, otherwise you won't know what God's word says and otherwise you won't know how to live. And that's why, again, pre-market systems so much else. But that's the first code of laws, the 1650, and they base everything on the Bible. And while I'm at it, when they left England to come to America, there were 233 death penalty crimes in England. You could be put to death for 233 things. When they got here to America, their legal code only has 15 death penalty crimes. And people, they say, oh, they were so intolerant 15, no, look at where they came from, 233.
(00:35:49):
But in here, every single death penalty crime they have has a Bible verse beside it. So they didn't allow you to be put to death just because a king or queen said, so you had to have cause and you got to have biblical cause. So if you're a murderer, that's going to get you put down if you are a man stealer. By the way, they banned the slave trade in 1641 long before anybody else was doing that because it said here that if you are a man sealer, if you go somewhere else and steal a person and take 'em somewhere else into slavery, that's a capital offense. So when the first slave ship arrived there in 1646, they took the captain and sentenced him to death because he was engaged in man stealing. And the captain said, we didn't know it's a crime. It's not a crime anywhere else in the world.
(00:36:34):
And they said, well, now you do know we'll let you go this time, but if you ever come back with the lot of slaves, you will be executed because now, so they had 15 death penalty crimes, but every one of 'em had a Bible verse beside it. And again, this is what makes that group of pilgrims so remarkable. And the Puritan too as well. Pilgrims were the first ones, and the Puritans started arriving about 10 years later. They're both all committed to the Bible. Probably the Puritans are a little more harsh, a little harder than the pilgrims were. They were a little easier to get along with. And we all know people like that, but they both had the same Bible and both had really the same kind of laws and the same kind of colony and the same kind of business systems, everything else. And it was really out of that Bible.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:37:19):
So elaborate a little bit on the difference between Pilgrims and Puritan because I think a lot of people think they're the same.
David Barton (00:37:26):
Yeah, the pilgrims, I want to be careful how I say this. I don't want to give the wrong impression. I would say the Puritans were more stern. They were a lot more serious and maybe a lot less fun to hang out with because they're really pretty stern and we all know grandparents like that. And then you've got grandparents that'll let you do all sorts of stuff, and they're a lot of fun to be with and you want to go do stuff with them. And that's kind of how the pilgrims were. They both were very self-governed. They both had lots of freedom. They both were against slavery. They both did education for men and women. They both were private property. They both did not take stuff from the Indians, but the Puran probably self executed. Their laws a little sterner than the Plymouth colony did. And I say self executed.
(00:38:20):
I mean if you violated law among them, you're more likely to get punished for that. Whereas the pilgrims might say, okay, well just don't do it again. The Puritans might say, alright, you did it and you knew it was wrong, so now you're in trouble. So that's kind of the difference. And I don't mean to make the Puritan sound like they're harsh. They are so much more lenient than stuff going on in Europe, but they're just a little more stern than the pilgrims were. But they both have basically the same theological viewpoint. They both come out of the Reformation. They both are reading the Bible on their own. There's a lot more Puritans than there are. The pilgrims are called Separatists. The Puritans, they tried to stay in England and change the English system. They tried to change the king and queen, get 'em do a try, and the pilgrims said, we're just leaving. We're going somewhere else. We'll do our own thing. And the Puritans said, no, the right thing to do is to change the system. And so the Puritans were a lot more involved in trying to change the system where the pilgrims are called separative, and they're just willing to separate themselves and go off and do their own thing. And so that's kind of the difference between the two. They're both good groups, but one is probably a little sterner than the other. Is
Jenny Beth Martin (00:39:29):
When the Puritans came over 10 years later, had other pilgrims come over in that 10 year time or were they just reproducing from the first group that came from the Mayflower?
David Barton (00:39:45):
No, they had plenty others that came over and they were very easy to get along with just follow the laws. We got the laws laid out, so there were more and more colonies. What happened with the Puritans when they came over is called the Great Puritan migration. That's because the British King and queen, whoever was at the time, king or queen, the British crown, just got tired of them trying to reform government and said, get out of here. And so they did to the Puritans, what they did to the pilgrims. But the Puritans were trying to get involved in government and try to correct things that were wrong. And the pilgrims didn't do that. They just wanted the government to leave them. Don't kill our pastor because he says that Queen Elizabeth is not head of the church. Don't kill us for that. Whereas the Puritans said, no, we're not going to have a king who will say that because the Bible says Jesus head of the church.
(00:40:36):
And so for the Puritans, they were much more trying to change the system, and that's where they finally got tired of them in England and set out of here. And that's the great Puritan migration that leads to about 30,000 coming over in a number of ships. Great flotillas that came across with the pilgrims. It was more of a ship or two a time, a congregation at a time with the Puritans. It wasn't just a congregation, it was a whole movement. So it is the whole movement coming over at once, and that's the difference between the two.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:41:05):
Okay. Now, what is the difference between what we saw in Plymouth versus what we saw in Virginia and Jamestown?
David Barton (00:41:13):
Oh, such a good question. That is such a good question. When they came out with the 1619 project, their goal was to say America, it's all been like 16, 19. No, no, no. 1619 is so opposite. From 1620, and actually it was 16 seven when the Jamestown calling got started. They say that slaves came there in 1619, which is not correct at all. Slavery was not legal in Virginia until the courts allowed it in 1653. So 1619 project didn't get hardly anything, right? They may have got the page numbers right on their own book, but that may be all they got, right? Their content was sure wrong. But having said that, what you had in Virginia was a very socialistic system. It's a crown colony, and you work over here for the king and you send back to England, all the prophets you get, and we'll tell you how much you get back from that.
(00:42:06):
So they weren't working for themselves. They had classes with the pilgrims. Everybody is the same level. We don't care if you're the governor or if you're just the janitor and the church. Everybody is the same value over there. Not in Jamestown. You had the Lords and the nobles, and you had the yeomen, you had the workers, and you had the different levels. So it's like Europe come to America. And they did not do well there. They had a governor, John Smith, the third year he was there, he said, guys, he said, you're killing us because you won't work and the king's not sending the supplies often enough, and we're all going to starve if you don't do something different. So they tried to blow him up because he made 'em go to work. He quoted the same Bible versus the pilgrims did, but they actually had the gunpowder thing and tried to blow him up so that he wouldn't make him go to work.
(00:42:50):
So he gets injured, he goes back to England, and what happens is because they refuse to work in the third year, they get into what's called the starving time. That starving winner, they went into the winter with 490 colonists, and they came out with only 6,430 starved to death that winter because they had refused to work, and the king's not sending supplies often enough. And so they actually end up cannibalizing. They even eat those among 'em. Some of 'em were put to death for cannibalizing others. It was a horde time. So when you look at the Jamestown thing, it's very much like Europe. It's like living in Europe, except the king's not taking care of you like he does in Europe. You're just out waiting for him to send you something and it didn't happen. So I have here, this is large, and I'm going to put it in front of me and you won't be able to see all of it, but I'll just show you.
(00:43:41):
This is a school map from 1888, and it has liberty and curse slavery. This is Jamestown. This is Plymouth. This shows a money colony. It says mammon $1. This shows the Bible out of this colony came all these blessings that when across the nation, out of this colony came slavery that infected so much of the South and led to that conflict. So up here you have free education, you have knowledge and public schools, and down here you have ignorance and superstition and lust and Aris and secession and rebellion and the Drs God decision, and the Kansas Nebraska Act and fugitive slave law, all these terrible laws that came out. That's what they point to. So there's a huge difference between the colonies, and that's why the 1619 project could never get away pointing to the Plymouth colony. They did so many things. Of course they were people and they made mistakes. But when you look at the Jamestown colony, there's not a whole lot. They got, right? They did most of the things wrong. And because government was the big factor in their lives, not their own freedoms, not their own individual choices,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:44:47):
That map is pretty amazing. And it was from 1888, and it was a school map.
David Barton (00:44:54):
It would be, if you remember going back to elementary schools, when I was there, I got a lot of white hair. So maybe it's not the same anymore. We used to have big wall maps up that you show you the world and show the United States and show you Texas and whatever. And so that's a small one, but they would've had a big wall map up. So you could study that and see that, and all the kids would see that and say, oh, wow, what a difference between Plymouth and Jamestown, and look at the bad stuff that's produced in the South with the Civil War and all the slavery and look at how freedom came in the north. So that was something that kids were very aware of back then that we're not aware of today. Unfortunately, our school system has not done a good job of teaching our own history for that matter, much less the difference between Jamestown and Plymouth, which is a vast difference.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:45:41):
Yeah, I think in a lot of school rooms today, they have a bunch of rainbow colors and not a lot of maps. We have a lot to improve in our school systems. You mentioned that slavery really began in 1653. What happened? How was it introduced in America?
David Barton (00:46:01):
Yeah, it's a very fascinating tale, and all of the details aren't perfectly available, but the court records pretty much are. So what happens, the Jamestown colony arrives 1607, and in 1619, a slave ship off the coast of Virginia is captured by some privateers. And privateers are essentially ships that go to work for the government. We're going to be government authorized pirates, and so we'll rob whatever ship we can, and we'll share part of it with the government. And if the government let's us be authorized by them and we get to keep half or whatever it is. So whatever the government agreement is, we keep half, we give half for the king. And so there was a bunch of English guys on a Dutch ship that authorized by the king, and they attacked a Portuguese slave, trader. Slave trade came across, went down the east coast and down into the Caribbean, either Caribbean like Cuba area or down in the South America.
(00:47:03):
So there was this Portuguese slave ship that's coming by the coast, and this privateer ship, which is again, there's private pirates, they attacked the ship. They took all the loot, all the bounty, and they had, there's about 40 slaves there, and there were two ships involved. And they said, alright, let's split everything. So they split it and one of the ships got 19 slaves and the other one got the 20 slaves. We'll go somewhere and sell them and get money for them. We don't want slaves on a ship where we're trying to attack other ships. And so that one ship that had the 19 said, what's the closest port in Jamestown? Alright, let's take 'em there. So they got to Jamestown. They went into Jamestown and said, Hey, we got 19 slaves here. Who needs slaves? Who wants slaves? We got slaves for cell. And Jamestown said, slavery is illegal here.
(00:47:47):
We don't have slaves in Jamestown. They said, what do you have? They said, well, we have indentured servants. And that's how all of them got there. You agree to work for seven years and whoever will cover all your food, all your lodging, all your learning new job, cover your voyage over and you work for them for seven years, then Virginia gives you property on your own and become a free independent business owner. And they say, okay, well make 'em indentured servants because we don't want 'em with us. We'll just drop 'em here. So 19 slaves were dropped there and they became indentured servants. And so they worked for the three of five, seven years, and all 19 became free property owners in Virginia. And so one of those guys is a guy named John Caer. And John Caer is a black man. He was one of those original 19.
(00:48:35):
And he starts indenting people because if they'll come work for him for seven years, he'll bring them over, he'll pay their voids, pay everything. He gets seven years of labor out of 'em, and then they go get to be property owners on their own, but that helps build his farm and estates and everything. And he had a guy that came to work for him, Anthony Johnson, actually. Anthony Johnson was the slave. And John Kaser came to work for him for Anthony Johnson. And so Anthony Johnson, the original guy, was a black man. John Cher was a black man, and John Cher did the seven years work. And Anthony Johnson said, you're the most worthless guy ever. You did nothing for me. You sat around, I fed you, enjoyed the food you did. No work. So he went to court and said, Hey, this guy, I put the money in on his indenture and he didn't give me anything back.
(00:49:29):
Can I just own this guy for the rest of his life? It'll take that long for him to pay me off. And the court said, sure. Yeah, I was 1653. That's the first case of slavery. And it's when a black man sued to own another black man. And that didn't come out in the 1619 project. Anthony Johnson sued to own John Caer, and the Virginia Court said, yes you can. So that's how slavery gets really introduced officially. Now, the slave trade was going all along that coast. And a lot of people, if you don't have ethics, you can make a lot of money in the slave trade just like you can today. Slave trade is bountiful today, by the way. Put it in perspective, back at that point in time with the a hundred, you had about 120 nations at that point in time. Today we have 198 nations in the un.
(00:50:20):
94 nations today still have not banned the slave trade slavery. It's legal in 94 nations. We had in the slave trade in America, starting in 1501 going to 1875. So 374 years of the slave trade, there were 12.7 million Africans taken out of Africa, brought to America or to Canada or to other places. So 12.7 million is what's considered in the transatlantic slurry trade. That's 375 years. We have three times more slaves today than we had in the slave trade and the 1619 project to talk about slavery. Then why don't you talk about slavery now, 40 million slaves right now, Glenn. Beck's a good friend. We helped run this nonprofit. One of the things we do at the nonprofit is we are rescuing slaves today. So slavery, it's not like it's a colonial issue. It's been a human issue since the beginning of time, and it's worse now than it's ever been, and we're still chirping about what happened back in 1619, which that's not a good deal. That's not an excuse for it, but if you're really concerned about it, be concerned about what's happening today as well.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:51:28):
David, elaborate on what's happening today and the kind of slavery from which you're saving people.
David Barton (00:51:36):
Yeah, the slavery, there's genuine slavery and there's sex slavery both, and they're both horrendous. They're both very extensively operated. They're both very lucrative. There's tons of money available in that. Then you have so many, I mean, China's a good example. So much slavery in China. Just millions in China, but it happens in so many dark countries where that we really don't have pure real openness with that country and what's going on. And in many cases, like in many African nations, Nigeria, elsewhere, you just make sure government officials get part of the money for the slave trade, and they don't enforce laws even if they have laws against them. So again, we still have 94 nations with no laws against slavery. We have a bunch of other nations that don't have integrity in government. They need, they're kind of thuggish type of nations, and the leader of those nations are willing to make money to turn their eye on slavery and let it happen.
(00:52:38):
So in Nigeria, we've been rescuing slaves out of Nigeria. We've been rescuing 'em out of a number of nations. Nigeria, there's 198 nations in the world today and 192 nations currently persecute Christians. There's only six nations in the world that are not persecuting Christians today. Nigeria is the seventh worst in the world for persecuting Christians. So we go in, we rescue Christians, get them out, move 'em to different places, but Syria, same stuff as going to Syria. There's both slavery and there is persecution in Syria. That's another area where we're active. So there's just so many areas and we are very blessed to have some of the best intelligence folks in the intelligence industry. Part of what happens. So we know the nations, what's going on, and we know how to get in and move around in some of those nations. But the two I'll mentioned are Syria and Nigeria because people are fairly aware of that. But it's going to other nations as well, and we're active in other nations as well.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:53:37):
I am very grateful that you are doing that. And one of the things that I learned over the years is we have worked to secure the border is that slavery was happening here in America and a Richard servitude and sex slavery, which I think is a little, both are bad. Sex slavery is different than the other kinds of slavery. Both are horrific. And a lot of people, I will encounter people in my travels and they'll talk about different things and sometimes, especially if we have different political views, I just ask them, are you against slavery? Do you think slavery is wrong? Can we agree that that's a problem? Well, let me tell you why I am so motivated to help secure the border, and I go through and I explain what I've learned from sheriffs along the border and the indentured servitude and how people will come here.
(00:54:35):
And then they're owing money back to the cartels that got them over the border for years and years, and their families are threatened. And it's one reason why I'm so grateful today on Thanksgiving that we have President Trump as our president, and he has worked so much to secure the border. And not only that, he's working to deport the most egregious criminal element from those who have entered illegally. And I think that that is something that is helpful so that we can prevent that kind of slavery element from seeping into our country from other countries.
David Barton (00:55:13):
That's right. Yeah, you're right. And then there is no question, it's going across both borders. The sex slavery side is really horrific, but the other physical slavery, you're right, both of 'em are happening in the United States. It has been largely ignored. It's amazing what the media gets ticked off over and what they remain silent on. And for people who allege that they approach racism at such a degree, they're completely silent on the number of slaves that we have in America even today because it is kind of driven by party policy. And it's too bad they don't have better morals than they just say, I don't care who does it, it's wrong. And they haven't done that. And so thank you Jenny Beth for pointing that out because that is a big deal. And people say what they want to about immigration, you cannot deny the numbers of slaves, literal slaves and sex slaves that are coming across the borders against their will and are being trapped in that way. And if you don't think that's abominable, man, there's something deeper going on than just partisanship at that point.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:56:19):
That is exactly right. Okay. Let's go back into history a little bit. So Jamestown and Plymouth were so different in how they were operating. How did these two different philosophies wind up merging together to form America?
David Barton (00:56:43):
It is interesting you asked that because even at 1776, they had not fully merged together yet the difference between Massachusetts and Virginia even at that time was quite distinct. It was in, I mean, at the time of Patrick Henry and Thomas Jefferson, the Anglican Church, which was a state established church in Virginia as it had been since 1607, I mean, they were persecuting other denominations that were not part of their denomination. And so you'll find that whether it was Quakers or whether it was Baptist or Presbyterians or Jews, I mean horrific persecution, sometimes death, imprisonment fighting. And that's where Patrick Henry, who was an Anglican, said, this is absolutely wrong. You don't do this because of faith differences. Jefferson did the same thing when he was in 1777 when he was governor. He tried at that point to completely disestablish the Anglican church in Virginia. And it didn't happen at that point.
(00:57:45):
It was much later before he got it done. So by the time you get to the American Revolution, now I've got to say the Anglican Church in Virginia was not nearly as harsh as the Anglican Church in England was really, Virginia had become, how do I want to say Americanized to some degree. There was a lot more religious liberty there than there was in Europe and in places in Europe and in France and other places. But there was not nearly as much religious liberty as there was in New Hampshire and in Connecticut and in Vermont, which was a colony of New York at that time. They didn't have the same freedoms in the south that they did in the north, but they were still far ahead of what Europe was. So it really took till after the declaration was done after the eight years of war and after we came together to form a government to where we really finally all agreed on what religious liberty looked like for everybody. And it took a while to get there, but again, we're still light years ahead at that point of nearly every other nation in the world, even though it took the south a little longer to get there than it did the north.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:58:55):
And then what about Thanksgiving? It was celebrated back in 1621. Were there other Thanksgiving celebrations that were happening and then when did we start celebrating it as a country?
David Barton (00:59:10):
Yeah, 1621, we had a Thanksgiving, and then what happened was the next spring, the range did not come. And when the range didn't come for the pilgrims, that's a recipe for early death because if you don't have the food to make it through that harsh winter in New England, that's going to be tough. And so what they did was the governor called for a day of prayer and fasting. And that day of prayer and fasting is such a fascinating story, but on the day that they prayed and fasted that God was in rain to their crops, the Indians report and this we have the report of the Indian, he talked about how that this small cloud appeared in the sky and it grew and grew and grew into a big cloud. And then it set over all their fields and rain really soft and really slow all day long.
(00:59:57):
And when it was all over and done with, he'd seen them praying. He'd seen them fast, and he saw the rain. He says, can you teach me that trick? He said, when we get rains in the spring, it's always got hail and it's always thunder and it always destroys our crops. But this was gentle and it revived the crops. And so it was a very answered prayer time for that. And that started a practice in the Massachusetts colony that once a year in the fall, they would have a Thanksgiving and once a year in March or April, they would have a day of fasting when the new crops are coming in and we need God to bless the crops. So it started a tradition that ran across all of New England. Now, it didn't necessarily go down in the southern states at that point. Didn't get into the Carolinas, it didn't get in Georgia, but it was all over New England.
(01:00:42):
Virginia was kind of dividing line north of Virginia, south and Virginia and South. And so that started it. And then when we became a nation, it really kind of picked up. And so what I have right here is this is the very first national Thanksgiving proclamation. It's George Washington right down here at the bottom, his name there. This is a proclamation for Thanksgiving that he called for the entire nation. That's our first national Thanksgiving proclamation. Now states continued to have them. This is a Thanksgiving proclamation from signer of the Constitution, John Langdon. This is for New Hampshire. This is a Thanksgiving proclamation here from Sam Adams, the father of Revolution, but he's now governor of Massachusetts, and this is the state proclamation. So we had state proclamations, we had federal proclamations. Actually you see down here, this is Abraham Lincoln. This is the National Thanksgiving Proclamation for 1863 in the middle of the Civil War. So it became a practice that we kept in America. It originated up in New England, but the rest of the nation drew into that practice and we still observe and practice that today.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:01:56):
And then George Washington also had a proclamation for Thanksgiving, correct?
David Barton (01:02:02):
That's right. Yeah, that was that first one that George Washington proclamation right here.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:02:07):
Okay, there it is.
David Barton (01:02:08):
That's the first one. And it's interesting, he did this. He issued this on the day that we finished the Bill of Rights. So not only are we thanking God, but we have just finished the Bill of Rights. That's especially a reason to thank God. So this day of Thanksgiving occurred on the day that they finished the Bill of Rights in Congress. And when he got that word, he issued the Thanksgiving proclamation. And it's a great proclamation. He says It's the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits and humbly to implore his protection and blessing. And it's a great proclamation. But that's 1789. That's the first federal proclamation. That's George Washington right down here at the bottom. And that was the day that we finished the Bill of Rights.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:02:52):
That is really interesting. I've been reading a book about James Madison and the Bill of Rights, and it was really contentious in touch or go there as to whether we would actually have a constitutional republic. And then once they adopted the Constitution, they were seats across the country were insisting on that bill of rights. I think if we'd not gotten it done, we would not have a country. So that is a huge reason for our country to have given thanks on that day.
David Barton (01:03:26):
Yeah, exactly right. Both factions, both political factions came together and they agreed on that bill of rights and that was unity. They had not seen in quite a number of months going back to the constitutional convention two years earlier when they almost split over that and Ben Franklin called for prayer and they went to church. The Reverend William Rogers had a special prayer with the convention and that kind of turned them and they agreed on things. And then you got out to the nation and the nation said, now wait a minute, there's no Bill of Rights. And so that was a two year debate in the nation. And so when Washington sees again, unity coming back, it's like we got to thank God for this. And so that is significant. And you're right. I think without that kind of unity nation might've been two nations or three or four nations, we might've gone back to being 13 nations like we were before the Revolution. A lot of the states didn't even like each other. They had border wars with each other. It was kind of like living in Europe, France and France and Italy don't get along at all. And France and Poland sure don't get along. It was kind of like that until things turned. And that's why you see such a cool Thanksgiving there.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:04:34):
And then we celebrate today. When did it become a national holiday?
David Barton (01:04:39):
Oh, that's a good question. I don't remember when it became a national holiday. It had been a practice holiday for so long. That's a good question. I don't know the answer to that one, Jen Beth, sorry about that.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:04:49):
No worries. I just was curious. But we've been celebrating it and presidents declared a proclamation of Thanksgiving and now we just do it automatically. And I think that I read Congress maybe they passed a law for declaring that it is a national holiday in 1941. Does that sound about right?
David Barton (01:05:15):
I was thinking it was FDR when it became federal when it became the national holiday, and the nation had been doing it long before that, but I think it was in World War ii. So 41 sounds right. I think it was FDR that did it.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:05:31):
So David, going back to the pilgrims, what would you say the greatest gift to America is?
David Barton (01:05:37):
I would say the greatest gift to America given us by the pilgrims is their insistence on every single individual knowing the principles of liberty set forth by God himself and how those principles guide us in every aspect of life, whether it be education or government or church or land ownership or treaties or anything else. That Geneva Bible, I mean that was their guidebook. It is like our iPhone. They went nowhere without this. And some of the really fun pictures, you're going to have fun with the pilgrims. You just get online and look for pictures of the pilgrims. Virtually any picture of the pilgrims you see, you will find a Bible with them. They were called the people of the book. And I think that while too many people think of the Bible as something theological, and it is, they saw it as something very practical.
(01:06:30):
It was a guidebook for life. And I think that's the greatest gift that can be given, is to see that book as the basis of our bill of rights, the basis of our due process clauses, the basis of the free market system, the basis of education systems basis of so much we have goes back to that book. And I think it's a problem today that when people compartmentalize their faith and their politics and not let one touch the other, and that's the way Virginia was. You have your faith and you have your politics and you don't let one influence the other. The pilgrims are people who integrated that faith through every aspect of their life, let the Bible be their guidebook for life. Bible is filled with more wisdom than any book in the world. And it's not just a spiritual book, it is a book for daily living. And I think that's what the pilgrims taught us more than any other lesson
Jenny Beth Martin (01:07:18):
That is an amazing and inspiring lesson that they taught us. And let me ask you one more question about all those proclamations that you were just showing because you have them dating back for so long and throughout all of history, what is the thing that is common throughout all of them?
David Barton (01:07:41):
That's a good, good question. By the time you get to 1815, there had been 1400 proclamations prayer proclamations issued by 1815. And they are so diverse in many ways because they are so specific. Matter of fact, I'm going to pull out one right here. This you can see on the top there says John Hancock, this is a proclamation and this is the continental Congress and it's issued by John Hancock and he issued it because they just got word that George Washington's life was spared in the Benedict Arnold treason attempt. If Benedict Arnold had pulled off what he was going to pull off, Washington would be gone. And when Hancock gets word that Washington's life has been spared and the treason attempt of Benedict Arnold has been uncovered, he calls for a time of prayer and thanksgiving. I mean it was something to be thankful for George Washington still alive, commander in chief and Benedict Arnold, who we thought was a patriot, we now find out he's a traitor.
(01:08:43):
This is a really good time to thank God. And so I think that's why it's hard necessarily, or it's hard to kind of give a characteristic of all of them because it was not just a perfunctory form thing. They did this when there was something to thank God about and it was triggered by whatever the events of the day were. And the same with the fasting type of stuff with the pilgrims, man, our crops are dying in the field. They're sprouted up three inches and they're all falling over. We need to pray for rain. So many of them are, it was not like, oh, this is religious and this is what we do. It's like we need help or we need to thank God for the help he just gave. And so really was a very personal, very practical thing. And it's kind of hard to characterize because of that, but that's why I love it.
(01:09:28):
It's the same with Abraham Lincoln, his Thanksgiving proclamation. If you read his Thanksgiving proclamation, you would never know the nation was in the middle of a civil war because his thing is, you know what? It doesn't matter what we're doing. We need to be thanking God. Doesn't matter what our circumstances are. And it's fun to go back and read. Now, I dunno, we have tons of these on our website, wall builders.com. So if anybody wants to read these old ones, they're a lot of fun. And you can see there's some commonality, but they really are expressions of individual events and practices and faith going at that time.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:10:04):
It's interesting to me because you're pointing out these hard times that they were going through and yet in the midst of difficulty, in the midst of trial, they still were looking to God to give thanks, I think. And when you were saying that there are different, because there have been so many that have been issued over time, it was making me think about different Thanksgivings in my life and how after nine 11 Thanksgiving was a lot different that year than it might be in a normal year. And it makes sense why they would be a little bit different because you're thankful for different things and sometimes it's a really tough time and you're just thankful, not just thankful. You are thankful that God is there with you even though you're going through a trial that he hasn't abandoned you and he's with you.
David Barton (01:10:58):
Yeah, and that really is a good point because it is very personal. I recall back on the National Day of Prayer, which is a congressionally dedicated time when we called donation to prayer and President Biden neglected to use the word prayer in the National Day prayer proclamation. You go wait a minute. And he said, well, if you do pray, go ahead and pray today. And it's like, that's not what this is about. And so there is that element of, for me as a historian, I have fun just going through these things and knowing what was going on at the time and seeing what was going on and how it individual. And I hadn't thought about that Thanksgiving after nine 11 Marybeth, but you're right. I mean that was such a different time, a different perspective. And I think that's what really helps make this so great is when you individualize it and when you tie it to what's going on around you and you stop and you don't make this a perfunctory thing like tax day April 15th, when it's not that and you really think about what you're doing, it really does carry significance and has personal impact.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:12:05):
It truly does. So as we are closing this out, we've talked about the history of Thanksgiving, we've talked about how significant it was. Why does this still matter today? Why are we still celebrating Thanksgiving today, especially in light of the fact that we've had some presidents like the one, the previous one, Biden as you were just mentioning, who seems to have even forgotten God, why is all of this still so important for our nation and for us individually?
David Barton (01:12:38):
I would say a couple of things on that. One is we have been blessed to such a degree that we don't realize how blessed we have been. And so if I could say art, there's 5,800 years of recorded history. There's thousands of nations, there's hundreds of constitutions, and University of Illinois and Chicago University Law School said thousands of nations, hundreds of constitutions. What's the average length of constitution? The history of the world, the average length of the Constitution is 19 years. We celebrated 238 this year. We of all people should be more grateful than can you imagine going through a new government every 19 years, a new constitution, a new revolution, every 19? We haven't had that. And so we take it for granted and we just assume that what we are is what everybody else is and that's not the case. And so that's one reason for Thanksgiving for sure, is we have been blessed beyond all of the nations.
(01:13:38):
But at the same time, there's no guarantee for our future either. I mean, we will fall as quick as every other nation's fallen if we get away from the principles. And so that's where I think going back and knowing our history, even knowing what we've been through, even just going back and seeing why did John Hancock do this proclamation? He was so excited over his buddy George Washington who's still with us. And you start saying, oh, I didn't know that happened. I didn't know that. Who's been at Darnell? What did he do? And when you started going back and getting the history that we should have gotten in schools that we don't get into schools anymore, I think that too deepens our appreciation for Thanksgiving. So the blessings we take for granted when we stop and compare 'em to others, they should mean a hundred times more than they do now. And then going back specifically and learning the history of who we are as a people and how different that history has been, that's another thing that's a really good thing to remember at Thanksgiving.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:14:35):
That's lovely. David, thank you so much for being with me. Before we close all of this out, let me ask, let me give you a moment to tell people a little bit more about Wall Builders. What's on your website and what they can find when they go there?
David Barton (01:14:51):
Yeah, website, wall builders.com. And that name comes from the Bible book of Nehemiah where that they were trying to rebuild Jerusalem, which had been torn down and we said America, it needs to be rebuilt in some areas. And so that's why we use wall builders, that Bible analogy. And so we also in the Fort Worth Dallas area, have two world-class museums, more than a hundred thousand items like the stuff we've been showing today, every aspect of history. And so we try to make history come alive for people, help 'em to learn history, maybe they've never seen, never heard of before. So wall builders.com, you'll find a lot of this stuff online. As I mentioned, a lot of those proclamations online, you'll find the museums, you'll find a lot of books and materials, a lot of academic and teaching materials as well, a lot of curriculum type stuff. And then we also do a lot of training for teachers themselves. We do legislative training, we have about a thousand legislators in our network. And so working on things to help get America back to true roots, it's all part of what we do with wall builders.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:15:51):
Well, I'm very thankful for you and for Wall builders today. Thank you so much for joining me.
David Barton (01:15:57):
I love being with you. Thanks for all you do. God bless.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:16:00):
Thank you. And David, thank you so much for reminding us that Thanksgiving is not just a date on the calendar. It is a declaration of faith, freedom, and gratitude. And as we gather with our family and friends today, let's give thanks to God Almighty for this great nation, for those who sacrifice to preserve it, and for the opportunity each of us has to keep for free. From the fields of Plymouth to the farms of today, gratitude has carried America through. Let's live with thankful hearts, teach truth to the next generation and never forget the source of our freedom. I'm Jenny Beth Martin, and this is the Jenny Beth Show. And thank you for joining us today. We'll see you tomorrow. If you enjoy today's conversation, go ahead and hit like and subscribe. It really helps us reach more people who care about freedom and the Constitution. You can find this and other episodes@jennybestshow.com as well as Facebook Rumble, YouTube, Instagram X in your favorite podcast platform.
Narrator (01:16:59):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.