The Truth About the Climate Hoax & Junk Science | Steven Milloy, junkscience.com Is climate change really a crisis, or is it a manufactured hoax? In this explosive episode, Steven Milloy, founder of JunkScience.com, exposes how the EPA, the UN, and radical environmentalists manipulate science to push a political agenda. From the war on fossil fuels to the mandated EV push, Milloy reveals the devastating impact of green policies on America's economy, energy independence, and everyday freedoms. He also discusses Trump’s plan to dismantle the climate scam and restore common sense to environmental policy. Don't miss this deep dive into climate alarmism, junk science, and the future of energy policy!
The Truth About the Climate Hoax & Junk Science | Steven Milloy, junkscience.com
Is climate change really a crisis, or is it a manufactured hoax? In this explosive episode, Steven Milloy, founder of JunkScience.com, exposes how the EPA, the UN, and radical environmentalists manipulate science to push a political agenda. From the war on fossil fuels to the mandated EV push, Milloy reveals the devastating impact of green policies on America's economy, energy independence, and everyday freedoms. He also discusses Trump’s plan to dismantle the climate scam and restore common sense to environmental policy.
Don't miss this deep dive into climate alarmism, junk science, and the future of energy policy!
Twitter/X.com: @JunkScience | @jennybethm
Website: https://junkscience.com/
Steven Milloy (00:00):
EPA plus the un. They have weaponized carbon dioxide, which is a benefit to, it is a necessity for humanity. They've weaponized it into something that is going to destroy the planet. It's bad science used to advance an ulterior motive.
Narrator (00:20):
Keeping our republic is on the line, and it requires Patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author of filmmaker and one of time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she's most proud of is Mom to Her Boy, girl Twins. She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:52):
Today I'm joined by Steve Malloy, who you may know on X as junk science. Steve, what do you do and how do you have this title called Junk Science?
Steven Milloy (01:02):
Well, Jenny Beth, thanks for having me. Well, for the last 34 years, I've been working in this peculiar area where science has been abused by the federal government an awful lot. And in 1995 when the internet started catching on, I started a website called junk science.com, and this is going to be its 30th year. It's really hard to believe. Wow,
Jenny Beth Martin (01:25):
That's great.
Steven Milloy (01:26):
And so I've been fighting this phenomenon of bad science used by the government and trial lawyers and lots of other bad people, including businesses from time to time in one way or another. I've led nonprofit groups. I started a publicly traded mutual fund to push back on the ESG stuff. I've been a consultant. I've actually been a consultant to the government on government bad science. So it's not something I planned to do when I was going through school, but it's what I wound up doing. And I guess I've been fascinated by the lying so much that I just can't stop. It is happening today. It'll happen tomorrow. It'll happen forever because it's just the nature of people.
Jenny Beth Martin (02:05):
So what kind of lying have you seen?
Steven Milloy (02:08):
Oh my gosh.
Jenny Beth Martin (02:08):
This could take all the whole time, right.
Steven Milloy (02:10):
Well, so the biggest con going on right now is the climate hoax. And of course, this is a big focus of President Trump, who also thinks the climate alarm is a hoax. And so the challenge, we want to implement what the president wants, and he's got all these great executive orders on ending what he calls the green news scam. And that's all the money being spent through the Inflation Reduction Act. He wants to roll back the climate hooks itself, which is, there's an EPA rule called the endangerment finding that that has got to happen, and he wants to end offshore windmills and really onshore windmills. So he's got a lot of things in his agenda, and so I'm going to help him roll it back.
Jenny Beth Martin (02:53):
So what about it is the most egregious lie? And what about it is wrong? I mean, I can imagine a lot of things, but what do you think are the worst things that they're saying that alarm people and cause wind up manipulating the public?
Steven Milloy (03:12):
Well, I guess the fundamental flaw in the federal system is this EPA rule called the endangerment finding. The Obama EPA concluded in 2009, that carbon dioxide, which is a greenhouse gas, we exhale it plants needed as food. It's colorless, odorless pollution used to be something you could see. Now it's invisible. And not only is it invisible, it's plant food. So the Obama EPA decided in 2009 that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases were a threat to public health and a threat to public welfare. And because of that, they could regulate it under the Clean Air Act and they have done. So I worked in the coal industry for a number of years during the Obama years, EPA killed 50,000 high paying coal jobs based on this endangerment finding. These were high paying jobs. Each job was supported by four to 10 other high paying jobs in local communities and related industries.
Steven Milloy (04:11):
So EPA wiped out hundreds of thousands of jobs for no reason, no scientific basis at all. And of course, everyone knows about the climate hoax because we are constantly bombarded with it. Your children get it in schools, everyone has to buy Biden mandated EVs for everybody because of it. And I wrote a book in 2009 called Green Hell, how Environmentalist Planet Control Your Life. And it's through climate that they want to tell you where to work, where to live, how much energy you can use, what kind of energy you can use, what kind of food you can eat, what kind of car you can drive, just every aspect of your life, what kind of light bulbs you can have, what kind of dishwashers. I mean, it's just endless. Everything in our lives that use energy is subject to they want to regulate. So
Jenny Beth Martin (04:56):
It's plant food. Explain to people who maybe don't remember science or didn't get the right kind of science. If they went through school recently, they may not have even had the right science. How is it? Is it plant food?
Steven Milloy (05:09):
I love
Jenny Beth Martin (05:10):
That phrase.
Steven Milloy (05:10):
Right. So carbon dioxide is naturally occurring in the atmosphere with sunlight. It's how plants make food for themselves so that they can grow. The process is called photosynthesis. We learned about this usually in seventh graders.
Steven Milloy (05:26):
And if there's not enough carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, all plant life will die. Humans will die. We don't know that there's too much plant food in the atmosphere because we just can't get there. I mean, there's no process by which we can get there. But generally speaking, the more CO2 there is in the atmosphere, the better it is for plants. I mean, you can see this in scientific studies where plants grown under different same temperature, but different levels of carbon dioxide do better because, and so we have, thanks to the slight warming that has occurred, plus carbon dioxide, we can feed the 8 billion people that are on the planet. Before the internal combustion engine, before emissions, there were only about a billion people on the planet. And so modern technology, including the internal combustion engine and emissions, have taken us to over 8 billion people living healthier, wealthier, and freer lives than ever before. And the greens want to end that.
Jenny Beth Martin (06:22):
It's just crazy. And the plants turn carbon dioxide into oxygen.
Steven Milloy (06:27):
Oh, IM sorry.
Jenny Beth Martin (06:28):
Which is why if you don't have carbon dioxide, you don't have plants using it, then we don't have oxygen. And that's how people die.
Steven Milloy (06:35):
That is part of the process. In the evening, they will respire oxygen, but I mean, they first use carbon dioxide to make energy for themselves,
Jenny Beth Martin (06:44):
For themselves,
Steven Milloy (06:45):
And then oxygen is a byproduct of that. But
Jenny Beth Martin (06:49):
In its amazing how there are all these cycles built into the earth to help the earth.
Steven Milloy (06:54):
It's incredible sustain
Jenny Beth Martin (06:55):
Itself. And yet the people, they twist this, they twist the science.
Steven Milloy (07:05):
So I mean, this started out as global warming because the idea is that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse. Gas and greenhouse gases help trap the heat. And if you remember Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth, he's got this little cartoon of a frog in a pot,
Steven Milloy (07:21):
And his idea was that carbon dioxide is kind of like turning up the heat on that pot, and we're slowly boiling ourselves. So of course, unfortunately for Al Gore and this whole hoax, there's actually no direct scientific evidence that emissions have affected anything over the last 40 years. There's probably been some warming, but it's probably caused by the naturally occurring El Ninos. We've had a series of El Ninos. These are the warming comes out of the Pacific and causes warming and other weather disruptions all over the planet. So that is what's been warming the planet. You can see every time there's a spike, there was a big spike in 1998. There was a big El Nina spike in 2015. There was a big El Nino spike last year, 23, 24. And that's where the warming is coming from. The warming is not coming from CO2. You can't show that.
Jenny Beth Martin (08:10):
And if you were in DC recently for the inaugural, you would not have felt any warming at all. It was actually really cold. Maybe not the record cold as it's ever been in dc, but it was
Steven Milloy (08:23):
Cold, cold up. So January in the United States as a whole was the fifth coldest January since 1981. January in particular, was about eight degrees colder than January, 1990, despite 1.4 trillion tons of emissions, January was about eight degrees cooler than January, 2006. Despite 800 billion tons of emissions, there's just no evidence that emissions have anything to do with anything yet EPA plus the un. And what could go wrong there with those two
Jenny Beth Martin (09:06):
Nightmare scenarios, right?
Steven Milloy (09:08):
They have weaponized carbon dioxide, which is a benefit to, it is a necessity for humanity. They've weaponized it into something that is going to destroy the planet.
Jenny Beth Martin (09:21):
Okay, so how are they doing that, and what do you think can happen to change it with Trump as president?
Steven Milloy (09:28):
Okay. Well, so EPA issued this basic finding that CO2 is a danger. And so using that finding, Obama, for example, was able to destroy half the coal industry. They are shutting down our coal plants. They would shut down gas plants. They want to destroy our electrical grid. They want the electrical grid itself to run on wind, solar, and batteries, all of which are unreliable and really expensive. And so our electricity grid is one of those things that has gotten us out of the dark ages, but they want to destroy it. Now, whenever we have extreme weather, everyone has to worry about whether the grid is going to hold up because there's more demand when it's really cold. People turn on their heaters more when it's really hot, use your air conditioning. And now we even have data centers coming online, which are drawn even more power, and our grid is just not equipped to do that.
Steven Milloy (10:28):
And the greens on top of that would make us all drive EVs, and our grids just could not survive that at all. We really do need, my MAGA energy plan is to burn coal for electricity, to take all that wonderful natural gas we have, export it to Europe and Asia where they'll pay six times more for it and then count the money that works. No, I mean, coal is the cheapest form of electricity there is when it's reasonably regulated. And coal plants are clean. People don't know that I worked in the coal industry. Even the coal industry didn't really understand how clean these modern plants are, but they're very clean in China. We often see China is very heavily coal. When we see polluted air in China, that's not their coal plants. That's because a lot of Chinese still use coal to cook at homes in their homes. And so when that soot goes into the air, it, it's not scrubbed. There's no air pollution control in that. But in modern coal plant, there are controls. So that's the difference.
Jenny Beth Martin (11:31):
And what is Trump doing to help pull these things back? And he's only been in office for two weeks since we're recording this, so there's still a lot of time for him to do more. So to have your coal only and export the natural gas, that's your plan. But what is his plan?
Steven Milloy (11:51):
Well, so President Trump is really great on all these issues, and he and I are really at the same mind, and it's just a question of getting everybody in between us to do what they're supposed to do. President Trump is for burning coal. He's for exporting natural gas. He has reversed Joe Biden's ban on or moratorium on export terminals for liquified natural gas. President Trump wants to burn more coal. He wants to change EPA regulations to make that possible. He wants to start with this thing called the endangerment finding. We talked about earlier where EPA decides CO2 is bad, so we want the EPA to roll that back. President Trump is also going after, during the Biden administration, they passed this awful bill called the Inflation Reduction Act, which requires about a $1.2 trillion worth of spending subsidies, I should say, for green technology. I hate to use the word for wind turbines and solar panels and EVs and batteries. And he wants to roll all that back. And of course, the Biden administration was shoveling as much of that money out the door at the end as possible. I hope Elon Musk gets around to looking into that fraud. Sure. There's a lot of it there.
Jenny Beth Martin (12:58):
Yeah.
Steven Milloy (12:59):
So President Trump, I mean, I love the guy. I mean, look, mean, I'm so excited about him being president because he gets all of this. He campaigned on this. He often said climate was a hoax. He would describe why it was the green news scam. He talked about that all the time. He would make fun of wind turbines, EVs. There's nothing wrong with having EVs, but they should not be mandated by the government, nor should they be subsidized. And even Elon Musk is on board with that.
Jenny Beth Martin (13:28):
He is. And the Biden administration said, we couldn't have gas stoves. We couldn't have, they were saying No gas heaters. That adds even more of a pull on the grid. And it also would cause people to have to reconfigure the electricity in their house to be able to, it is just mind blowing how much they take all these scientific, and I say that in quotes, studies, and then use it to twist things around so they can manipulate how people act instead of letting us make our own decisions.
Steven Milloy (14:06):
And it's not like these scientific studies are coming from good people intending good things. Okay. The environmentalists, I mean, this is just a left-wing political agenda. They're all just political actors. Communist China is behind a lot of this. You mentioned the gas stoves, that research and that institute that did that is funded by the Communist Chinese. Their fingerprints are all over all this stuff. Every ev, every wind turbine, every solar panel, every battery we buy just makes us that much more dependent on communist China, where all the raw materials for these things come from. And we're just making ourselves more dependent. So not only is the science, see what makes junk science, just to bring this back to where we started, it's bad science used to advance an ulterior motive or agenda.
Jenny Beth Martin (14:58):
And
Steven Milloy (14:58):
That's exactly what climate is. Climate is not about the environment. It's not about the climate. It's about advancing the left-wing political agenda. And it's beyond me how successful they have been wildly successful. But President Trump unique among virtually all Republicans, except for maybe like Jim Minh, late Jim Minh, president Trump has been outspoken about this, and he was outspoken about it during the campaign. It was awesome.
Jenny Beth Martin (15:26):
Yeah, it was. And he's shining light on it, and he understands you have to have energy in order to flourish, but you have to have energy just to survive. And it's naive to think that you don't need it and that we can live without it.
Steven Milloy (15:45):
See, and that is the ultimate position you want to be in. We need all this energy. But President Trump takes it a step further. That position would you just articulate is your average Republican will say, we need energy, but climate is a problem not there,
Jenny Beth Martin (16:02):
Just to be clear.
Steven Milloy (16:03):
Right? No, no, I know. But I just want to explain this to people. And in my business we call that Luke warmer. Okay. President Trump is not a Yeah, squish President. Trump is not a squish, not a lukewarm. He knows it's a hoax. He said that a million times. He said during the campaign, he can explain it anytime you want, which is fantastic to have in a president. And so I'm so excited about this moment. I'm only hope that in between, say myself and President Trump, this idea doesn't get lost, and we don't get these things done.
Jenny Beth Martin (16:32):
When it comes to the EPA and what happened during the first administration, during the first Trump administration versus where we are today, and we're just getting started today, I understand that although to just be getting started, Trump has done some amazing things in just 14 days. But what kind of maybe challenges did you see from the EPA and from the deep state that you would hope we can overcome in the next administration?
Steven Milloy (16:59):
So I come to this from the perspective that I was on the transition team in 20 16, 20 17 for Trump and EPA, and we started at the position, well, we're going to roll back all these bad EPA policies and bad EPA methodologies for doing things. And we had some success doing that, but it took a long time. And in the end, Biden just rolled it all back. This time, president Trump is taking a different, more aggressive tact. He's going directly giving specific instructions to his cabinet, including Lee Elden at EP what to roll back, what to do. And so I think we're going to see a lot. And of course, now he has Elon Musk as kind of this enforcer, this really, it's really fantastic.
Jenny Beth Martin (17:52):
And one of the most amazing things, I think about what Elon is doing and the programmers working for him is that they're looking through all the data. They're looking through all the money. They're looking through, where are things flowing, where's the money flowing? What is happening? Because when you follow the money, you can figure out what went wrong. And we didn't have that before, and we certainly didn't have the ability to look at it all with artificial intelligence the way it's available today.
Steven Milloy (18:17):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, what else is good is we are now, Elon and his team has been going into the agencies, and if they're not cooperating, they are gone and they lose their access. And that's what should have happened the first time. But of course, it's hard to know. The whole idea of the resistance was new at the time, and the resistance organized itself very well and was a very effective force. This time's going to be different. I don't know what's going to happen in the future, and nobody does. It's so exciting. Yes, it's exciting. It's hard to know, but we'll see.
Jenny Beth Martin (18:57):
So I hope that the same kind of thing happens in the EPA that we're seeing in other agencies right now. If they get in there, the new administration is in there and they're working and they're trying to change things or to get information to change them. If they're not getting it, get rid of the people. Get rid of the roadblocks as Elon Musk would say, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete. And then get to a point where we can have real
Steven Milloy (19:24):
Science
Jenny Beth Martin (19:25):
In. Go ahead.
Steven Milloy (19:27):
The phrase I heard yesterday was control. Halt, delete.
Jenny Beth Martin (19:30):
Okay, that would work. Yes. Which
Steven Milloy (19:32):
Control?
Jenny Beth Martin (19:33):
Halt, delete.
Steven Milloy (19:33):
But it's not just EPA, it's also going to be Department of Energy energy where Chris Wright is now. Chris Wright is the first energy secretary we've ever had to have any experience in the energy industry, which is hard to believe. I mean, the energy department was created in the Carter administration, and it's just been filled with hack politicians.
Jenny Beth Martin (19:53):
That's crazy.
Steven Milloy (19:54):
Is it? Isn't it,
Jenny Beth Martin (19:55):
Steve? This is something that I've, I'm marveling about with President Trump right now. He understands how to build things out of nothing to go and dig in the ground and move the earth around and build a huge ginormous skyscraper building like massive building a huge building. And he understands how the supply chain works. He understands raw materials, he understands rent prices and mortgage prices and leasing and borrowing money and spending money and interest rates, how airplanes work, because he owns an airplane. He may not know all the ins and outs, but he at least understands the basics of it. And it is so different than the normal people we have as presidents who come and they come in from this whole political sphere where they've poll tested everything they're saying and thinking, and they've pushed a lot of papers, and they don't have the real world experience that he has. And Musk has real world experience. And as you're just talking about Chris Wright, he has real world experience.
Steven Milloy (21:06):
Well, I mean, president Trump is a gem in this way. He's the first president that I can think of certainly in my lifetime and just almost anyone's lifetime, where this building experience he has, he understands how things go together, what has to happen to bring a building to life.
Jenny Beth Martin (21:28):
He
Steven Milloy (21:28):
Knows about the financing and the foundation and just the whole building process. And so does Musk, right? Musk has that. Just think of that rocket being captured. I mean, Musk did that,
Steven Milloy (21:42):
Right? Musk has a private space agency, essentially. I mean, it is really amazing. So to have these two brains running these things, yeah, I understand how a lot of people have difficulty with this, don't understand what they're doing because they don't understand how to build things. But President Trump does. Elon Musk does. And I think this is actually a great learning experience for JD Vance. This is different than working in finance or in venture capital or community organizing like Obama or in crooked Washington DC politics like Joe Biden or whatever nonsense oil stuff George Bush was doing as the son of somebody else. Trump can really build things. And so I think we ought to let that experience work for America.
Jenny Beth Martin (22:28):
Well, and I think we're already seeing it work. I mean, we saw it work in his first administration. I'm not downplaying or dismissing that. What to me right now, crystallizes the difference between Trump and all other presidents in my lifetime is what just happened in Western North Carolina. They were hit by this once in a lifetime storm and completely devastated. Trees are down, roads are washed away. There's just debris everywhere. And for months, paper pushers have been claiming to try to help. And FEMA has gone in there and who knows what, set up a couple of tents or RVs and said, come over here and we'll let you fill out some paperwork and give you some assistance somewhere. Trump goes in, sees it, and 24 hours later, earth movers are there moving the trees that have fallen down and getting the debris out of the way. And bulldozers are there clearing the way because he understood what needed to be done. I mean, anyone who has been to a construction site anytime in their life or watched a house being built would know, Hey, you've got to clear that out so you can rebuild. But instead, we just sat there, they stagnated for months, the coldest month in years,
Steven Milloy (23:46):
Right? In years. Yeah. Well, your average politician can't relate to any of this. I mean, they can. Going to those sites is just a photo really to show that I care. But Trump wants to do something,
Jenny Beth Martin (23:58):
Right?
Steven Milloy (23:58):
He likes the bulldozers. I mean, I'm sure he would be out. You saw him in the trash truck.
Jenny Beth Martin (24:02):
Yes.
Steven Milloy (24:03):
He would probably driven that trash truck if he knew he'd be out there with the bulldozers if he could. He's really a remarkable person. And yeah, he's breaking some China right now, and people are upset. This is all new. I mean, who would have thought that a president would just come in with a wrecking ball and do this to the federal government? No one. But it's what has needed to be done. Because to build something that works, you got to tear down the garbage, the monstrosity that's there.
Jenny Beth Martin (24:33):
You got to get rid of the debris. Who has some bulldozer?
Steven Milloy (24:36):
Well, so there's just a wrecking ball that has to go into what we have because we're 36 trillion in debt, and we are not headed in the right direction.
Jenny Beth Martin (24:43):
And it's another trillion every three months right now. I think it's unsustainable. We can't continue on this path, but that brings us to what you are working on right now. You have to free up the energy so that businesses can exist in America, and you can't let the bad science and the junk science, you can't let people manipulate science to implement their socialist agenda.
Steven Milloy (25:12):
Right. So EPA has abused the science to help industry leave America.
Jenny Beth Martin (25:19):
Yes.
Steven Milloy (25:19):
And so we are at a point now where we are entirely dependent on communist China. Say President Trump has introduced some small tariffs on China. China responded by putting export controls on tungsten delirium, a bunch of other minerals. I mean, this is what China is going to do. And China could really shut down our economy if they wanted to because we were so dependent. We don't make antibiotics here. We make 'em in China.
Jenny Beth Martin (25:41):
Phones,
Steven Milloy (25:42):
Chips,
Jenny Beth Martin (25:43):
You
Steven Milloy (25:44):
Name everything, chemicals, everything. So we need to industrialize America something else President Trump wants to do. And to do that, we're going to have to have realistic science coming out of EPA. Of course, like President Trump says, we want to have clean air, clean water. Of course, we've had that ever since. I've been working on these issues starting in 1990, and we want to keep that, but we don't need to abuse the science to just, so it's impossible to have any industry at all. We need to have a coal industry. We have great natural resources. We've been blessed incredibly. We have plenty of coal, plenty of natural gas, plenty of oil. We have all these minerals. We don't need to mine them in the most disgusting way in China. We can mine them cleanly and safely here, and we should.
Jenny Beth Martin (26:28):
So one of the things that I have thought, I used to work in a paper mill, and I have watched trees go in and paper come out. So I've seen that, and I've seen the smells, and I wore worn the hard hat and the steel shoes, earplugs, eye protection. So I've done that. But these businesses, as manufacturing has left America and gone to China, we hear people are saying, oh no, he can't put tariffs on. It's going to cause prices to go up and it's not fair. And we need free trade, and I want free trade. And I don't think that free trade is a bad thing. What I do think is a bad thing is when you say, we're going to have free trade and air quotes, and what they really mean is China can do whatever it wants. It can have slave labor, it can have any kind of pollution that it wants.
Jenny Beth Martin (27:26):
It can build as many coal plants as it wants every single week. If they want to build one, they can. And here in America, we're saying, you can't do this and you can't do that. And workers must do this, and workers must comply with that. And you wind up with so many regulations on a manufacturing plant that there is no way they can comply financially with all those regulations and pay people a competitive wage so they can live and survive in America and compete with slave labor and no regulations in other parts of the world. That's not free trade.
Steven Milloy (28:01):
No. And I say this coming out of a libertarian background, when I first started in the nineties, I was with the Cato Institute and other groups, and they were wrong. They were naive. Free trade is great. It's a great ideal. But in the world we live in where we have two nuclear powers who are, especially China geopolitical rival, free trade doesn't work. China is using free trade to make the US dependent on China. It's free. Freight is a weapon. A weapon.
Steven Milloy (28:34):
It's a weapon. And so we need to industrialize America to where we make all our vital goods here. And if President Trump is going to use tariffs to help us get back to a good place, well, I think that's great. As far as timber, for example, someone, they were talking yesterday, I yesterday before about, well, Canada is going to put tariffs on us, and President Trump says, so what? We've got plenty of trees and we do. And you know what? We can cut 'em down and trees grow back. That's right. As a matter of fact, we need to cut down trees just so that our forests don't burn down. And Los Angeles, right? Right. There's
Jenny Beth Martin (29:14):
We've got trees to spare right
Steven Milloy (29:15):
Now. Yeah, we have trees to spare and they grow back.
Jenny Beth Martin (29:18):
That's right. Renewable resource.
Steven Milloy (29:19):
And they're good jobs for people. And we need to have these, not everyone wants to work at Starbucks or code ridiculous
Jenny Beth Martin (29:27):
Or drive an Uber around or whatever, which will be out of business with Elon Musk advances and technology in a few years.
Steven Milloy (29:34):
There's so much we can do, and we can really get back to what I always thought America was all about having great jobs where people could go to work, have a career, buy a house, raise their kids, send their kids to college, and that should be a reasonable expectation. But now you have kids that are in their thirties, they can't even think about doing any of those things. They're not prepared.
Jenny Beth Martin (29:58):
Right. They're not prepared. And I don't want to be paint too broad of a stroke because people find a way to find a job, and people are innovative and entrepreneurial. But if you think every single person must go to college in order to go program or do something like that, so they have a job, you don't have diverse opportunities for them. So we have a diverse population in our country as far as skillset go.
Steven Milloy (30:32):
Yeah. Well look,
Jenny Beth Martin (30:33):
Not everyone's going to be able to be Elon Musk. There's only one of him.
Steven Milloy (30:37):
Yeah. Colleges are very expensive. And for everyone, it's not clear what they get out of ll.
Jenny Beth Martin (30:45):
And some of them are just getting indoctrinated too.
Steven Milloy (30:47):
And some people need to go to school later or whatever. I
Jenny Beth Martin (30:50):
Mean,
Steven Milloy (30:50):
But there should be good, solid, high paying career paths out of high school. You should be able to learn a trade that's valuable and be a success. And you shouldn't have to to go to college if you don't want to. A lot of people are, autodidacts can learn on their own, learn what they need. You can have a happy life not going to college without spending all that money and going into debt. There's so many options. And right now, I feel like there's really not much. These kids, they get into debt and when they graduate, there's really nothing to do except code drive an Uber or work at Starbucks or something like that. And it's really, or work for the
Jenny Beth Martin (31:27):
Government
Steven Milloy (31:28):
Or work for the government. We need fewer people in the government. It used to be that people would go to work for the government, they'd make less money, and they might have a little bit more job security, and they'd have a guaranteed retirement plan, medical benefits. Now, the government jobs pay better than private jobs. It's crazy. And you can't fire them. They have Cadillac healthcare, they have Cadillac retirement benefits, and at the same time, they're screwing America with their stupid regulations.
Jenny Beth Martin (32:02):
It's crazy. So there's a lot of opportunity right now to change your regulations and adjust them or just get rid of them. Are there any that you can think of that you would want to rewrite or maybe you don't want to discuss that? I don't know. No,
Steven Milloy (32:18):
No. I
Jenny Beth Martin (32:19):
Bet you have a whole list in your head.
Steven Milloy (32:21):
Look the same way Elon Musk is going through U-S-A-I-D. I would go through EPA. I've been working on EPA issues. I know more about EPA than probably anybody alive.
Jenny Beth Martin (32:31):
Wait, why? What is your background? How did you
Steven Milloy (32:33):
Well, I have a background in science from college. I have a graduate degree in public health biostatistics. So statistics. And I'm a lawyer and I'm also a securities lawyer.
Jenny Beth Martin (32:42):
Why you like school?
Steven Milloy (32:44):
Well, I was in school until I was about 30. I have four degrees people, people with all those degrees. No, but I worked while I went to school, so I have lots of experiences. I worked on Wall Street, I've started businesses, I've all kinds of experience. I worked in the coal industry. So I've been blessed. I've had all these experiences. It's how I know anything, but I've always had my eye on EPA. And I started out as a consultant for companies on EPA and even for the US government. I was hired by the Bush administration to find out why EPA science is so bad. I produced my report when it was finished, the government had changed. The Clinton administration tried to censor my report. I took it out anyway, published it, and the Wall Street Journal praised me for doing this, spotlighted it. And that was how I got started in this. I've just been fascinated by the amount of lying going on when it comes to these regulations. What's called science is not science, it's junk science.
Jenny Beth Martin (33:48):
It is junk science. I remember I was in college in the late eighties and early nineties, and we worried about, well, I didn't worry about it, but people worried about acid rain and that it was going to destroy the world. And here we are all these years later, and acid rain has not destroyed the world, and there's always a new fad that they're worried is going to destroy the planet, and it scares people and gens 'em all up, and then they just comply with whatever they're told to do.
Steven Milloy (34:18):
So acid rain was one of those scares, turned out to be a big nothing. Burger. The ozone hole.
Jenny Beth Martin (34:23):
Yes.
Steven Milloy (34:23):
50 years ago in the seventies, we were worried about a looming ice age that didn't pan out. So that became global warming. That didn't really pan out. That became climate change.
Jenny Beth Martin (34:33):
Then they can win no matter what.
Steven Milloy (34:34):
Right. Well, then it just became bad weather.
Jenny Beth Martin (34:36):
Right? Bad weather.
Steven Milloy (34:38):
So any weather event now is, oh man, it's climate change.
Jenny Beth Martin (34:41):
Right? It's
Steven Milloy (34:41):
Crazy.
Jenny Beth Martin (34:42):
Yeah. Okay. So if you were in the EPA, what would you want to change?
Steven Milloy (34:45):
Well, I would start with that endangerment finding, which we have talked about before we roll that back. So the EPA would not be involved in climate anymore.
Jenny Beth Martin (34:51):
I think heads might explode if you do that. Would people, heads
Steven Milloy (34:55):
Will explode. Oh, around the world. Oh, yeah. No, no. Okay. When that happens, if that happens, when that happens, heads wilkes explode. I would also get rid of many of EPAs air quality regulations. And that's not going to dirty the air, because as I said in 1990 when I started, the air was air and water were clean and safe. It had remained clean and safe. But EPA has layered on all these really expensive regulations that destroyed all these coal mining jobs I talked about. And other industrial jobs, states and localities don't want to have industrial plants because it'll throw 'em out of compliance with EPA air quality rules. And EPA did that on purpose. If you're a state and you don't meet your EPA air quality compliance standard, EPA gets to withhold their highway money, your highway money. And of course, what governor is going to allow that to happen. So they'd rather forego the industrial plan. And this is really part of when people think about regulations, they think about the compliance costs. How much will it cost for me to comply with that regulation? But the really big cost is the opportunities that are lost. We can't have industrial plants, we can't have manufacturing, and we need both to have an economy.
Jenny Beth Martin (36:14):
Well, and it's very important to do that. So I think that being able to make these changes are going to make a huge difference, and it will help us grow the economy in a way that we haven't seen in a while.
Steven Milloy (36:30):
And I would just like to make may be a wishful thing, but science, the EPA, I mean, it is possible. We're constantly bombarded with these scares today. There was a story in the Washington Post about how there are microplastics in our brains and Oh
Jenny Beth Martin (36:48):
Yeah. That's a big thing though.
Steven Milloy (36:50):
Yeah. Big eye roll. And also these things call forever chemicals. They're everywhere. So the thing with forever chemicals and microplastics is they're everywhere. There's no question about that. But the real issue is are they causing any harm? And the answer is no. And why? Because they are both engineered to be inert in the environment and inert in your body. If you consume them, they just pass through. They don't store up in your body despite today's Washington Post article, which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. But the left owns the media and scary stories sell. So this has really worked out for them. They have done really well with it, and it's really hard. Republicans traditionally have avoided the environmental issue. The old joke is you ask a Republican what they think about climate and it's not really a joke. And then they go, well, I'm not a climate scientist. And of course they get beat up for that. It was always a lame response. But President Trump doesn't care if a reporter goes out to President Trump and says, you really think climate is a hoax? I mean, he will give you chapter and verse on why it is, which is really, you got to love the guy.
Jenny Beth Martin (38:06):
Well, I do. Everybody should. Yeah.
Steven Milloy (38:09):
Everybody else I'm kind of lukewarm about. But Trump, he's awesome.
Jenny Beth Martin (38:14):
Yes. Going back to the Washington Post and all of the things that they're trying to use the scary stories for, we saw all these scary stories during Covid, and we saw how the science caused the whole world. It literally changed the entire world. It changed our entire path, and we diverged from where we were going and went on a completely different path because they closed down everything in a way we could never even imagine.
Steven Milloy (38:45):
So Covid is a great example. Now, I used to write a weekly column for Fox news.com. It was called Junk Science Period. Every Friday, it's before they went to this blog format. So it was always there. And for all those years, those nine, 10 years, whatever it was, I documented how corrupt the public health establishment was. So when Covid happened, of course it's corrupt. Of course, they don't have any science. CDC, the whole public health establishment, corrupt, politicized. And if they're not, they're incompetent.
Jenny Beth Martin (39:16):
Okay?
Steven Milloy (39:17):
These are not the smartest people. I went to a school of public health. I know who's there. I know what these people are. I know what they know and what they don't know better than they do. I've been functioning sort of as a Cisco need, but for science in a sense. As a movie critic, I'm a science
Jenny Beth Martin (39:34):
Critic.
Steven Milloy (39:37):
And so Covid was a no-brainer. Of course, there was no science behind any of that. I'm glad that it opened people's eyes to what is going on in science, but they still have to make the leap between covid and everything else. I mean, it is, all of it is fraud. I mean, if you read about it a newspaper, it's probably not a science. It is probably an attempt to get
Jenny Beth Martin (40:03):
Attention. I think that's a good place to start if you just start that when you're reading it in the newspaper, especially when it relates to science. But you probably could add just about every subject in there, but don't believe what you're reading, and you can't even research some of it because it's been censored so much.
Steven Milloy (40:23):
And until recently, it's really been taboo to talk about these things and to question things because get shut down in a modern university or in the government state, federal government, or anywhere in society, you'll get canceled. Of course, me and my fellow climate skeptics, we were the first ones to be canceled in the 1990s, and I probably got canceled before any of them because when I did my report that we talked about earlier about the abuse of science at EPA, I got shut down right away. It was like they knew I was coming right for their heart, coming for them, and they shut me down right away. But I was right and just persevered.
Jenny Beth Martin (41:12):
And
Steven Milloy (41:12):
So here we are, president Trump.
Jenny Beth Martin (41:15):
That's right. Well, and you know what? I think there are a lot of us who got shut down or got attacked, or the government was weaponized against us, and we just kept going, you keep going. You know
Steven Milloy (41:27):
That
Jenny Beth Martin (41:27):
What you're doing is, and you just keep going and going and going, and now you've got President Trump, and he championing all of our causes and trying to fix it all.
Steven Milloy (41:37):
Covid was kind of a miracle in that way. It just sort of woke everyone up in a way that people wouldn't have been woke if it hadn't happened. I mean, it's terrible that it happened, but I don't know. I mean, people are now aware, and that's really, it's invaluable.
Jenny Beth Martin (41:55):
Well, I think that that's right. And I worked with and still work with so many doctors who tried to get the country reopened and tried to deal with all of the bad science coming at them. You were talking about the public health officials, and they weren't really smart, and they don't really know anything. They really are a lot of paper pushers. And then you've got the doctors who are touching and feeling and looking in patient's eyes and treating the symptoms and helping them live. But even within that, you've got this group of doctors and group in academia in some of the IVs and some of the bigger, the much more intellectual schools, the schools that you would want your doctor to go to who they stepped away and they said, wait, this isn't right. This isn't right. The science is bad. It's not how it's supposed to be. But still, some of them haven't made that leap to say. And also the science over here related to the climate stuff is just as faulty as the science we're seeing around Covid. Many have, but some have not.
Steven Milloy (43:10):
Yeah, I mean, I'll say I've been in some ways very fortunate. So I graduated from the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, which was number one public health school in the country. And I got out, I was in a PhD program. I got out early. I was bored by it. It just seemed so stupid that all public health problems had been handled and everything else was just being made up and I forgot about it. I went into the securities business, and then several years when I got washed out of the securities industry for the third time because the market crashed, I started working for a lobbyist in Washington who focused on EPA. He used to be at OMB. At o IRA was in charge of regulations. He liked me. I had a background in science, statistics and law. He goes, this is perfect for what I want to do. And from the very first project I started working on it, I could see this is all crap, but I've had this very fortunate career path for looking at this stuff and evaluating. Most people don't, but covid really sort of brought people along. It did. And if they could just project that into the rest of what the federal government does, we'd all be so much better off.
Jenny Beth Martin (44:20):
We would be. And if they would project that into anything that's talking about the scientific models, and the model says that the world is going to end in a few years or a few days or a few months, whatever it might be, if they would just take a step back and go, wait a minute. I don't know if they're
Steven Milloy (44:41):
Right. Look, all the covid models are wrong.
Jenny Beth Martin (44:43):
Every one
Steven Milloy (44:44):
Of them, all the climate models are wrong. They've never been right. But EPA still uses them and they do so unabashedly, and that's just got to end.
Jenny Beth Martin (44:56):
Yes. Well, and then they can't even predict the weather a day from now, and yet we're supposed to believe they know how to predict that the world's going to end and everything must be our whole entire lives must be upended for something that's going to happen 50 years from now.
Steven Milloy (45:15):
Yeah, no, absolutely. The last two years, there's been this warming spike and all this weird weather. I've been told so many times, well, climate science has settled. We understand it. Well, no one predicted that with science, if you can't predict what's going to happen, you don't know
Jenny Beth Martin (45:30):
Anything.
Steven Milloy (45:30):
That's what science is all about. Science is about predicting the future. And if you can't predict the future with the science, then you don't know any science. Then that's the bottom line. It doesn't matter what degree you have. If you can't predict the future, you are not a scientist.
Jenny Beth Martin (45:45):
That seems pretty simple. And in my lifetime, I like to do this just when I'm picking on science. And anytime my kids would come home and say, well, my kids were really good. I made sure they understood what was real before they went to school. One time, you would be so proud of my children. They went to school and on Earth Day they were told something about Earth Day and they needed to do something for Earth Day. And one of my twins, I won't say which one, I think it was first or second grade, they went up to the teacher and they said, we can't do this. We don't worship the Earth. Yes, children understand.
Steven Milloy (46:27):
That's very
Jenny Beth Martin (46:27):
Good. But during my time, I was taught that Pluto was a planet. And then I've been told Pluto is not a planet. And then I've been told Pluto is some sort of small planet. They can't even decide what's in our solar system.
Steven Milloy (46:46):
So I mean, that tells you right there, it's not really science.
Jenny Beth Martin (46:49):
That's right.
Steven Milloy (46:49):
They don't know what it is. And they keep changing their minds and it's, it's not science. I go back to, if you cannot predict the future with what you know, then you are not a scientist or do not have scientific knowledge. No matter what your degree, you can have a PhD, you can have five PhDs in physics. If you can't predict what's going to happen, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how many degrees you have. Retrospective analysis is not science, it's just analysis. You need to predict the future.
Jenny Beth Martin (47:20):
And when they say things like, well, the science is settled, then what are they afraid of if you're trying to poke at it and push their theories to see if their theories hold up? Because a real scientist would say, here's what I think was going to happen. I proved it was going to happen. You can have at it every which way in my theory is going to hold up no matter what.
Steven Milloy (47:43):
Look, I do this with my friends all the time. If I'm wrong, explain to me how, okay, I want to know. I don't want to go out and be wrong. If I'm wrong, I'm not going to insist on being wrong. I want to know how am I wrong? And that's how people should be, right? You should want to improve your theory or cut your losses and get something, get a new theory or something. But unfortunately, when government funding, the government decides what the policy is, and then the funding is just to prove whatever the government thinks the policy should be or what the science should be. That's how it's always worked. The policy comes first and then the science is built around to support it. And it's wrong.
Jenny Beth Martin (48:25):
It is wrong. That's not actually science at all.
Steven Milloy (48:27):
No, it's not. That's
Jenny Beth Martin (48:28):
Just propaganda to support a government policy.
Steven Milloy (48:33):
But because it's done by people with PhDs, people think it's science, even though it's never been right, can't be proven, has no basis in reality, it doesn't matter.
Jenny Beth Martin (48:45):
It's absurd. Now, one other topic to cover. So you have also been involved in the stock market and you understand the markets, you understand science. What do you think of all of push for ESG, environmental,
Steven Milloy (49:03):
Social governance, social commitments? So E ES G is really just politicized investing, right?
Jenny Beth Martin (49:08):
Yeah.
Steven Milloy (49:09):
Well, so this is something the left has been working on for 40 years now, and it took 'em 20 years to get anywhere. When they started getting someplace 20 years ago, I started a publicly traded mutual fund to push back on them. And we had some success. But then when the stock market went to hell again in 2008 because of the housing bubble,
Steven Milloy (49:31):
We couldn't afford to keep our mutual fund going. But of course, the left has very deep pockets and they could. And so they brought it to this point where it's now ESG, it used to be corporate social responsibility, now it's ESG investing. And as it became ESG investing, the left had captured all the banks. All the big banks. And when you captured the financial system, that's very powerful weapon in society. And so through the banks, they were having the banks implement social policy that could not be enacted through the government, through Congress or through regulations. The banks were saying, look, if you want money, if you want us to finance what you're doing, company X, Y, Z, you need to adopt a climate agenda, adopt DEI stuff, whatever.
Steven Milloy (50:19):
And so a bunch of us started pushing back on this years ago, a couple years ago, sort of a new round of this. I started it 20 years ago, but a new round of it now. And we've had a lot of success working in red states. We have been able to expose the illegal nature of ESG investing and I mean illegal in terms of antitrust law, so actionable violations of the law. And so people are starting, if the banks, I think the banks are basically owned by leftists now. So if the banks are not all the way on our side or neutral, they're at least being forced back underground with their political activities. So if you've been banking, president Trump is great at Davos. He beamed himself into Davos and he lectured the Bank of America CEO on de banking conservatives. You got to love that guy. What president of the United States would ever dare do that? Usually president of the United States will try to suck up to CEOs, not President Trump. He tells you what he thinks and he was right because Bank of America has been awful and they have Deb banked plenty of people. So hopefully ESG is going to, we're going to continue to fight and push it back. That's another thing I've been working on. Sorry, we didn't talk about that more. That's okay. But yeah, that's another, ESG is one of those things that relies on junk science, at least the biggest part of the E is climate and climate is junk science.
Jenny Beth Martin (51:55):
And when you started working on it 20 years ago and it was corporate social responsibility, what was the response when you were pushing back then versus, I mean, now you've got states that are paying attention to
Steven Milloy (52:05):
It. So it was interesting. It was a new idea for conservatives and libertarians. And so we would try to raise money for our mutual fund and we'd get people, and obviously people did, some people invested, but a lot of people would say, well, if I don't like what Bank of America is doing, I'll just start my own bank.
Jenny Beth Martin (52:26):
That's really
Steven Milloy (52:28):
Hard to do and kind of crazy. And by the time you get around to starting it, and just to show you how, if you're familiar with Milton Friedman most famous libertarian conservative economist of free market economists of all time, we went to Milton Friedman's apartment because we wanted his support. We had gotten support of all of the libertarian think tanks and conservative think tanks. And so we asked Milton Friedman and Milton Friedman was like, I don't want to get involved in this. Besides don't that we have already won. The Berlin Wall came down, meaning that free markets had already triumphed over communism, of course, as we had just lived through. That is obviously not the case. The left is alive and well, and Berlin Wall, they don't care. Yeah.
Jenny Beth Martin (53:21):
I mean we won that round. But Liberty requires eternal vigilance. There's always going to be another round coming to try to take liberty away.
Steven Milloy (53:30):
Left Leftism has been around for a very long time,
Steven Milloy (53:34):
Predates the Civil War. It's still here. Watch M-S-N-B-C or CNN, you will see it actually, it is alive and kicking today may not have as big an audience as it used to have, but they are still around. And there's a lot of people that are heavily invested in it. And it would be extremely foolish for conservatives to pretend that these people are not around anymore. They are. They've already, look, they own every institution in this country more than the federal government. They own many state governments. They own every university. They own the education establishment. Right. Very important. Who educates our children. They own every institution. They own many corporations means they're very powerful political force. We have not vanquished them.
Jenny Beth Martin (54:20):
No. And they're, because they own the education system, they're thinking of their ideology because they are just indoctrinating. They're trying to indoctrinate as many people as they can right now rather than educate. That thinking and mentality is in the minds of so many young people across this country. And it's going to take Trump being successful and us being able, all of us who support Trump going back and pushing back and saying That stuff you were taught in school, it's wrong.
Steven Milloy (54:53):
It's
Jenny Beth Martin (54:53):
A bunch of bunk. And watching. You've seen how much your life has improved and the economy is improved and the world is improving when you allow capitalism to flourish. And you aren't trying to control every single aspect of a person's life, which is what the alternative really
Steven Milloy (55:13):
Is. So the teacher's unions have figured out this leftist catechism that kids memorize. They don't learn to think. And even when you get to university, you don't learn to think. You don't learn to question. And as matter, you're discouraged from thinking and questioning. You have to do whatever your professor says. You have to think like he does or he'll hold it against you, especially if you're a conservative. God help you if you speak your mind. So that's got to change. We've got a lot of work to do, but we've got to start someplace. President Trump is the place to start. I'm only sorry that he's only going to be there for four years. We're going to really need a good replacement. Remember that's going to be
Jenny Beth Martin (55:51):
Right. But we've got a lot of opportunity right now, so I look forward to watching what you're able to do to help from the outside with the EPA and people who you're working with. And I think we all have to make sure that we are doing everything we can to support President Trump as he's upending things and trying. He's not just trying to upend everything. He's trying to set it right again
Steven Milloy (56:15):
And he's trying to do it in two weeks. So yes,
Jenny Beth Martin (56:19):
Yes. No,
Steven Milloy (56:20):
It'll take longer than that. Two months. But yeah, no, he's doing quite a bit. It's really amazing. I encourage everyone. The left is going to make it sound like the whole world is falling apart. It's not. It's being fixed.
Jenny Beth Martin (56:31):
It is. It's being fixed.
Steven Milloy (56:32):
And it's being fixed by a guy who's a master builder.
Jenny Beth Martin (56:34):
That's right. And a rocket scientist. And he actually is predict he can reproduce catching the rockets. So a real scientist was right next to him.
Steven Milloy (56:45):
And both of them are for free speech.
Jenny Beth Martin (56:47):
That's right. Very good. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks
Steven Milloy (56:50):
For having me.
Jenny Beth Martin (56:51):
Great to have you.
Narrator (56:52):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Mohan and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.
Jenny Beth Martin (57:11):
If you like this episode, let me know by hitting the light button or leaving a comment or a five star review. And if you want to be the first to know, every time we drop a new episode, be sure to subscribe and turn on notifications for whichever platform you're listening on. If you do these simple things, it will help the podcast grow and I'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much.