Jenny Beth sits down with Rosemary Jenks of Numbers USA to discuss the border crisis. Rosemary gives an honest update on what is actually happening at the border, how the Biden administration is failing, and why all Americans should be concerned about this issue.
Rosemary Jenks is Vice President, Director of Government Relations for NumbersUSA. She has been working on immigration policy for several decades and has a vast amount of knowledge of the problems America faces as a nation and what we can do to fix them.
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Watch Tea Party Patriots' 2014 film Border States of America.
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Jenny Beth
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Rosemary Jenks: 00:00 I mean, these are essentially child slaves in the United States of America in 2023. And this has been done by the Biden administration. It is our policies that make this profitable for the cartels.
Narrator: 00:15 Keeping our republic is on the line, and it requires Patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author, a filmmaker, and one of time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she is most proud of is Mom To Her Boy, girl Twins. She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth Martin: 00:48 Welcome to the Wild, wild Southwest. And I'm not talking about the frontier days of the Old Wild West usa. I'm talking about the absolute lawlessness happening on our southwest border with Mexico right now. Rosemary Jinx is the Director of Government relations for Numbers usa. She's been fighting for sound immigration policy for decades, and there are few experts with the vast amount of knowledge she has on this issue. If you really wanna know what's going on on the southern border, you're going to wanna stick around for this entire episode. Rosemary Deans, thank you so much for being with us today.
Rosemary Jenks: 01:24 It's a pleasure. I'm so happy to be with you, Jenny Beth. So
Jenny Beth Martin: 01:27 You have been working to secure the border for, for years?
Rosemary Jenks: 01:32 Decades.
Jenny Beth Martin: 01:32 Decades. Um, let's, let's start out with just a slight bit of background about what you do, and then I wanna, before we go into solutions, talk about what's going on at the border. It's a hot mess there right now. Yes. So how did you get involved in this issue, and what is it that you do at exactly?
Rosemary Jenks: 01:49 Well, so I actually started out my career in the early 1990s with the Center for Immigration Studies. So that's kind of where I learned the issue. And then after that, I went to law school and learned absolutely nothing. And then I came back to Washington to start as the Government Relations Director for Numbers USA in 2001. And I have been there since then. Um, basically trying to get Congress to do the right thing and fix our immigration problems, including our border security problems. Um, you know, we have not had a, an immigration system that suits the national interest in a very long time. Our entire immigration system, including the border chaos, is all about special interests. You know, it serves special interests. It serves corporations. It does not serve the American people. And so that's been our focus to try to get, to inform Americans about what's actually happening and get them to contact their members of Congress so that we can try to make a difference and change the policy.
Jenny Beth Martin: 02:48 So what is happening on the border?
Rosemary Jenks: 02:50 Absolute and utter chaos. It is unbelievable, and the lies we are being told are astonishing. I mean, the day after Title 42 expired, so on May 12th, um, secretary Mayorkas went public and said that the, the Border Patrol apprehension numbers have gone down. Now he said that very carefully, border patrol apprehension numbers, and they have gone down. But what he failed to say is that the number of illegal aliens that DHS is allowing to come through our ports of entry has gone up by over 250%. So basically, our government is just diverting illegal aliens to the ports of entry so that we can process them into the United States, mostly give them parole and release them. Some of them are being given a what's called a notice to appear, which is basically a court date. The court date, depending on where the alien ends up in the United States, could be anywhere from three years to nine years from now.
Rosemary Jenks: 03:57 So this is a population that our government is allowing to come, is escorting into the United States, taking over from the cartels and bringing them the rest of the way into the United States for years, most likely permanently. Because once they're in, and, you know, they have a US citizen child or, you know, established ties to the community, it becomes much, much harder to remove them when they are inevitably denied asylum. And they will be de denied asylum for the vast majority. So this is a, a disgrace. It is a tragedy for our country, and the people it's going to affect the most are poor Americans, the people who can least afford it, because they're gonna compete for jobs, they're gonna compete for resources. They're gonna be in the emergency rooms waiting for medical care because the illegal aliens are using the emergency rooms as their health insurance. Um, the schools are gonna be increasingly overcrowded. It's just a disaster for the average American
Jenny Beth Martin: 04:58 When he's, when Secretary Mayorkas says that the apprehensions are down, explain what an apprehension is and how that is supposed to work. And then explain what is a actually happening. So compare what should be happening versus what is happening.
Rosemary Jenks: 05:14 So apprehensions are when an alien comes across between across the border, between ports of entry and is encountered by a border patrol agent. Either the border patrol finds them or they turn themselves in. Um, so that counts as a border patrol apprehension. There are also inadmissible aliens, in other words, illegal aliens trying to come through the ports of entry. Normally, an illegal alien would not go up to a port of entry and say, would you please let me in? Um, but they're doing that now because they know they'll get in. Um, what is supposed to happen, if an illegal alien crosses the border illegally and is apprehended by the border patrol, they're supposed to be immediately put into expedited removal. That means that they should be given no hearing, no other processing. They should be returned to their home country immediately, unless they claim a fear of persecution in their home country.
Rosemary Jenks: 06:14 As soon as they make that claim, then the whole process changes. And the law requires that the Department of Homeland Security detain them through the entire adjudication process of their asylum claim, or in the alternative, it can return them to a contiguous country. In other words, remain in Mexico policy and make them wait in Mexico until their asylum claim is adjudicated. Um, this Department of Homeland Security is doing neither of those as we know. It is doing what's called catch and release, which for this administration means either that they're giving the aliens a notice to appear in court years down the road, or they're giving them parole, which is a, a status that the administration does not have legal authority to give them because parole is very clearly defined in the law. As for urgent humanitarian needs or significant public benefit, this chaos is obviously not in the public's benefit, um, nor is it for a significant humanitarian concern, um, or urgent humanitarian concern. And so they're being released with parole, which means they're entitled to a work permit, as are the aliens who are given a notice to appear. If they file an asylum claim, then they also get a work permit. So all of these folks will be competing for jobs with Americans and allowed to live here until something else happens.
Jenny Beth Martin: 07:43 And they may be getting a work permit, but they're really still illegal immigrants. Correct. Because the law is being broken to, to the point that they wind up with that work permit.
Rosemary Jenks: 07:55 The law is being broken by the Biden administration. Clearly in the parole case, um, the laws also, and we saw this, uh, in the holding from the Florida judge in a recent case where he said that the parole plus alternatives to detention policy that Biden was using is violates the law. It clearly does. Um, the problem is what is the consequence for that? You know, they're here, they have work permits. The work permits are, are lawful, you know, they're going be lawfully authorized to work, except the whole beginning of the process violates the law. Right. But we have no way to hold anyone accountable for that.
Jenny Beth Martin: 08:34 Um, and that means that it's a very lawless situation. Yes. And one of the things that always bothers me about this is that you have people who are claiming they want to escape from, from lawless countries, from countries where they don't feel safe or where they want better opportunity or whatever it might be. But by and large, they're run by people who are looking out for their crony friends and not following written law. And then they come here and the very first thing they do is take that same kind of lawless attitude and apply it here in America. And part of what would make them want to come here, whether they realize it or not, is that we are supposed to be a country of laws, not men. We're supposed to be, there's supposed to be law and order in our country, and, and rules are supposed to matter. And right now they they don't.
Rosemary Jenks: 09:28 They don't. And the reason for this is because the Biden administration from before President Biden was inaugurated, has been saying, come on in. Everyone is welcome. I mean, he said before he was elected, I want all the illegals to come to the country. I want you to come. They did. They've been told that our border is open. They've seen with their own eyes that our border is open. So why wouldn't they come? I mean, I'm not even sure that a lot of them know that it's wrong, because they've been told, they've been told by the cartels, they've been told by the president, they've been told by, you know, the vice president, they've been told by the Secretary of dhs, come on in.
Jenny Beth Martin: 10:09 And then you've got people like in New York who are upset because these, um, illegal immigrants are being housed at at their schools in gymnasiums. And they're like, no, no, no, we don't want this happening. They probably voted for it if they're from New York.
Rosemary Jenks: 10:25 Yeah. The same thing's happening in Chicago. In fact, a lawsuit has been filed against the, uh, city council that has decided to use an abandoned school in a largely black neighborhood to house migrants. And the black population is up in arms and rightfully so as he should be. That's right. They're going to take resources from this poor black community that, you know, should not have to compete with illegal aliens, just because the Biden administration says, oh, well, you know, we're gonna put some overflow here in Chicago and there in New York, it's just lunacy. And you know, at some point someone needs to say to the president, you know, if you're running for reelection, you might wanna think about who's supposed to elect you. Because if you have shown such disdain for your voters, why would they come out and vote for you again?
Jenny Beth Martin: 11:18 Right, right. Um, the, the court dates and taking up to nine years, is that normal for it to take that long? Should it be taking that
Rosemary Jenks: 11:29 Long? No. No. And it's because of the massive backlog that, I mean, we had a backlog in the immigration courts before President Biden took office. It has skyrocketed. It has gone through the roof. The entire system is on the brink of collapse. So, you know, because so many people have been let in and told, oh, just show up for a court date sometime in the future. And, you know, the more people come, the further away that court date gets. So, you know, I don't know that we can ever fix this. I don't know what the, the, the answer to this population is. And if we have another two years of this, I don't know how we survive that.
Jenny Beth Martin: 12:07 Um, and we probably will have another two years of, of this. I mean, perhaps Biden will get a clue, but I, I'm not, I I don't think we should be advising people to hold their breath on that.
Rosemary Jenks: 12:21 No, absolutely not. I mean, the, I think the one hope is that somebody around the president will say to him, look, you've gotta do something about this. The, the PR on this is not going in your direction.
Jenny Beth Martin: 12:35 Um, and, and one thing we can always count on politicians to do is look at what benefits them and their max reelection. And,
Rosemary Jenks: 12:42 You know, the people around President Biden very much want to keep power. Yes.
Jenny Beth Martin: 12:47 Very much. Um, the, the, the system is overloaded. Oh, one of the things I wanna point out, you know, this, and I know this, and I interviewed Sheriff Joe Martinez from Val Verde County in Texas recently. But in case people don't, don't know already, when they come across the border, they're not staying in Texas, they're not staying in El Paso or Macallan or wherever they might, might be in, in, in Tucson, which is a little bit north of the border, but down, they're, they're not staying there. They're, they're getting into cars or getting onto planes or buses, and they are going all over the whole rest of the country. That's right. And we're hearing about it in Chicago and New York, but they're, they're going everywhere in the country. Mm-hmm.
Rosemary Jenks: 13:43 Yeah. So the Heritage Foundation actually did a really interesting study very recently, and it's available on their website where they actually use cell phone data, um, from, you know, across the, into Mexico, and then tracked the cell phones to show where the people went. And they went to every single congressional district in the continental United States. I don't know if they went to Alaska or, or Hawaii, but I know they went to all the congressional districts here. So yeah, it's everyone's problem. Um, you know, once they start breaking into the gated communities, then maybe someone will care. But, you know, cuz the, the elites just think of it as cheap nannies and cheap housekeepers. So
Jenny Beth Martin: 14:24 Yeah. And, and that is, it's wrong to do that because then when they're bringing drugs in and the drugs are affecting the entire community, if, if it isn't affecting you, maybe you don't realize it's a problem. But it is a problem. Yeah. It, it's a problem everywhere. Um, earlier you said that what's happening along the border is focused on special interests, so it's not about what benefits America or Americans, but it's, it's special interests. Would you elaborate on that a little bit?
Rosemary Jenks: 14:51 Yeah, so I mean, with the elites, as I just said, that the, you know, they're perfectly happy with this because it's cheap nannies and cheap housekeepers and cheap construction workers and, you know, just cheap labor in general. Um, corporations love cheap labor. So if they can replace Americans with cheaper workers, and remember, these folks are all getting work permits. So it's not like the employers are being forced to hire illegal aliens. They're not, right. They're hiring legal workers ish. Um, then you have the, the church groups that are, that are profiting off this because they're getting government grants to transport illegal aliens around the country and to house them and feed them and, you know, provide all the other services. Um, so they have a direct financial interest. A lot of other nonprofits have the same kind of interest with government grants coming in to, to pay for all of this.
Rosemary Jenks: 15:45 Um, you know, there are all kinds of, um, the, the kind of, how do I say this, um, racial politics types who are fine, as long as it's their kind of people coming in, which is very interesting because you've got, for example, the Congressional Black Caucus, uh, is demanding more access for Haitians. And then the Congressional Hispanic Caucus is saying, well, but I mean, the Central Americans are the ones who should be coming in. We need to, to make more room for the Central Americans. And then you've got a Cuban delegation that's not talking about Central Americans, but is only focused on Cubans. And so it's like, well, hold on. Now this is affecting all of us. So why are we dividing people by nationality? Um, and then trying to make special exceptions for them. It's, it's just ludicrous. And that's one of the big underlying problems with our entire immigration system. The 1965 Immigration Act was supposedly passed to take National Origins discrimination out of our system of laws. And yet after 1965, we have the Cuban Adjustment Act, which is just for Cubans. We have had, uh, Haitian amnesty, which was just for Haitians. We've had a Nicaraguan and Cuban amnesty for Nicaraguans and Cubans. Um, we have the Chinese Student Protection Act. You know, there's just a plethora of these national origins based exceptions to allow more people to come in based on, you know, some political group here that wants more political power.
Jenny Beth Martin: 17:21 Uh, it, it's disgusting. Um, Michelle Malkin has a really good book on this Yes. Border Inc. And I encourage people to read that book. It, it, it'll make you mad, but it's important to read it Yes. To understand how these special interests really Yeah. Really work. Um, you also mentioned that the cartels, basically the Border Patrol is doing the job for the cartels. So the cartels delivered a border patrol right now, and then border patrol takes over. What, what do you know about the cartels, um, in Mexico and and beyond?
Rosemary Jenks: 17:54 So, first of all, every single illegal alien who comes to our border has paid the cartels, every single one. Because if you don't pay the cartels and you're found in Northern Mexico, you're killed. They, they just kill you. So all of them have paid one of the cartels to, you know, the, the different cartels control different portions of the southern border. And they're very much in control of our southern border. The border patrol is not, and they'll admit that openly. Um, so the cartels charge different prices based on whether you have a child with you. Um, you know, if you're a family unit, it's easier to get you in, whether they have to get you to Houston or just to the border. That's, you know, it's a, a higher cost if they have to get you into the country or to a certain destination. So basically we are telling the cartels, you just get 'em to the border and we're gonna take over and it'll be easy and then we'll be distracted because all the border patrol officers are in the, in the border patrol facilities processing these aliens, and the drugs are coming across, the fentanyl is coming across, the criminals are coming across, the terrorists are coming across, you know, we don't even know who's coming across except we keep catching, you know, a couple of terrorists, uh, in, I think it was near San Diego
Jenny Beth Martin: 19:15 Recently.
Rosemary Jenks: 19:16 Yeah. It, it's insane. You know, this is a huge national security threat. It's obviously a threat to Americans public health with the fentanyl coming in. Um, I, you know, the idea that people think about this, particularly on the left, people think about illegal immigration as a victimless crime. It's anything but it victimizes so many people, including the aliens themselves. I mean, they're absolutely being victimized by the cartels, by the smugglers. And we're inviting it. We're incentivizing it. It's it's sick.
Jenny Beth Martin: 19:52 It is sick. And, um, sometimes they wind up basically going into, um, al almost being, or maybe quite literally being indentured servants here in America. Absolutely. Because they have committed so much that they will pay. And if they don't pay it, then something may happen to somebody that who isn't in America who the cartels can get to.
Rosemary Jenks: 20:14 That's absolutely right. And we just recently saw a big expose, a couple of them actually in the New York Times about the unaccompanied alien children. Now, the, the New York Times report never actually said, these are unaccompanied alien children, but it's clear that they are, because they were talking about the connection with HHS Health and Human Services Department. So with unaccompanied children under current law, if they come from Mexico or Canada, they can be immediately returned and reunited with their families in the home country. If they come from a non-contiguous country, they have to be turned over by the Border Patrol to Health and Human Services within 72 hours. And then Health and Human Services is supposed to farm them out to a sponsor as fast as possible. That's actually in the law, so that we hold them as, you know, little time as possible. So instead of vetting the sponsors, HHS is just farming out these kids to, you know, whoever volunteers to take them. And in some cases, you've got sponsors who have 20, 25, 30 of these unaccompanied alien children not related, uh, either to the sponsor or to each other. And they're farming them out for labor and taking the, the child's wages and keeping it, you know, and, and the children are working in dangerous conditions. They're working in slaughterhouses and, you know, janitorial services overnight instead of going to school. It's unbelievable that this can happen. I mean, these are essentially child slaves in the United States of America in 2023. And this has been done by the Biden administration
Jenny Beth Martin: 21:53 And these people who, um, misunderstand this issue and think that it is humanitarian to allow the lawlessness to go on, they don't understand what you were just talking about. It actually, the lawlessness is creating a situation where we wind up with slavery and indentured servants in America in 2023.
Rosemary Jenks: 22:14 Yes. Yeah. And sex trafficking and, you know, I mean, the, the list of horrors is endless with this kind of situation because, you know, you're basically holding a carrot out to poor people and saying, you can live the American dream and then burying them in the worst possible conditions.
Jenny Beth Martin: 22:37 They're not living the American dream at that point. Absolutely not. They're, they're thrust into a terrible, terrible nightmare. Yes. And as horrible as the work conditions that you just mentioned are, then you get into the, the sexual abuse that happens Yes. And the sexual crimes that are happening. That the, I that's one of the things when I first started learning about the border that I, I, I just was naive to, I didn't understand what was going on with it. And then when we learned about it back in 2024, no, not 2024. In 2014, as we were doing our documentary, some of the things that we learned we couldn't even include in our documentary. Yeah. Because I knew that if I did, when no one would believe it, yeah. No one would want to know what was happening in America. And it, and it's just horrible. Yeah. It's absolutely horrible. Yeah.
Rosemary Jenks: 23:30 You just reminded me, I, one of my very first border tours was with former Congressman Tom 10 Credo. And, um, we went to Arizona and we learned about what are called spotters, cartel spotters. So these are employees that are paid by the cartels, and they're young men, and they come across the border illegally, and they climb up a mountain that overlooks a, a road that, you know, is, is a major traffic road for drug smuggling. And they, they set up camp on top of these mountains in Arizona Right. In New Mexico. Yeah. Um, and they have better communications equipment than our border patrol. They are usually armed. They also have the drugs that the cartel supplies them so they can stay, stay awake all night. And they tell the drug smugglers, they'll call down to the smugglers, the smuggling vehicle when there's a border patrol vehicle coming, so that the drug smugglers can avoid the border patrol.
Rosemary Jenks: 24:30 And when we came back from this trip and we started telling other Republican members of Congress and the media, we were told, no, that's not true. That's not happening. I mean, we had pictures. Yes. We climbed up the hills and we took pictures. You know, we had border patrol agents and, and, uh, a group in the, on the Tej Odem reservation called the Shadow Wolves, who used to be a part of ice and maybe still are, I don't know if there are any left. But, um, you know, we had the proof, we had seen him with our own eyes and, and they just said, no, it's not, it's not the case. I mean, Carl Rove told Tom Tancredo don't darken the door of the White House anymore. You, you're just telling tales.
Jenny Beth Martin: 25:11 And, and I've seen rape trees and I I and w what we mean when we say that is that these are trees where the, um, the coyote who is getting the people across will take undergarments of, of girls and young women and hang them on the tree as trophies after he's had his way with them. Yeah. Or, uh, used prophylactics. Yeah. It, it's just, it's, um, it's disturbing. And it, and it, it makes me sick. It just makes me absolutely, I I, it makes me sick. I can't imagine that happening to my own, my own child, or to myself. And worse, it makes me so angry that we're, we're, it isn't, no one intends, I don't think anyone in the Biden administration or anyone who is, is doing these o open, open border lawless, the lawless activity. I don't, I think 99.99% do not intend for that to happen. It is an unintended consequence of what happens when you don't enforce the law.
Rosemary Jenks: 26:19 That's right. But, you know, we have estimates that a third of all of the girls and women who come into the United States illegally are raped. We know that they're given day after pills because they know they're gonna be raped. Right. When parents put their children in the hands of cartels to bring them to the United States, and they turn over money in exchange for their child, they give their child an abortion pill because they know the child is going to be raped. So the parents, I mean, if you did that in the United States, you'd go to jail. The parents are to blame as well. But the fact is, our policies incentivize this. Yes. It is our policies that make this possible and make it profitable for the cartels. That's this whole thing is enriching the cartels along with, you know, US corporations and, and elites and a bunch of other special interest groups. But it is largely profiting the cartels.
Jenny Beth Martin: 27:27 Um, you mentioned a minute ago the Florida judge and what he did. So can you, I think it makes sense to go through that, and then I wanna talk about HR two and solutions, but let's talk about the Florida judge. What happened with that?
Rosemary Jenks: 27:42 So this judge in Florida, the, the Attorney General of Florida filed a lawsuit against the Biden policy, it's called Parole plus Alternatives to detention. So parole plus a t D. Um, and it is to be found nowhere in the law. It's not in the law. So it's an illegal policy. And the judge got all of the evidence he needed. He got the government's response to the lawsuit, and the government said, well, we have to do this because we don't have room to process them. So, you know, rather than giving them a, a court date years in the future, we're just gonna release them, give them parole, give 'em a work permit, and we'll, we'll give 'em a cell phone so that we can track them. That's the alternatives to detention part. Um, and the judge said, okay, this is not in the law. You are directly violating what the law says.
Rosemary Jenks: 28:35 The law mandates that you either detain them or return them to a contiguous country. And he excoriated the Biden administration. I mean, it was unreal. And then there was, um, an appeal, and I think this is, this is all still going on today because it was right before, I guess just the day before Title 42 expired. Um, there was either an, an appeal by the attorney by the, uh, or maybe a filing of a new motion by the Attorney General. Um, and she said this, this parole policy that they're doing now that they're, you know, they just announced that they're gonna do one title 42 expires, that's just as illegal as parole plus a T D. And so the judge said, okay, I'll take that. So he said, dhs, you need to respond to this. And DHS said, well, we need at least until tomorrow. And the judge said, you have one hour. And then he, he, you know, said he was going to stay their policy because, uh, it clearly violates law. Um, the White House press secretary had said something about how a Florida judge was sabotaging the administration's planned response to Title 42. And the judge actually included that in his re in his order, um, and just ripped the Biden administration. So, I mean, it was, it's a beautiful, beautiful opinion that should be read by anyone who's geeky enough to be interested.
Jenny Beth Martin: 30:08
Rosemary Jenks: 30:26 And this could very well be the beginning of the judicial system shutting down the Biden administration's lawlessness, at least in this area.
Jenny Beth Martin: 30:35 Well, in, in, by get granting parole the way that they're doing, aren't they circumventing the court? So then they're taking away some of the checks and balances in the, the system anyway, because would they be going before a court or a judge normally? Or is it just an administrative?
Rosemary Jenks: 30:51 So for an asylum applicant, they would go before, uh, an immigration judge, which is in, in the Department of Justice. Um, the parole thing, it's interesting because parole is usually a two year grant of status. So, and then you have, you have no path to permanent residence, whereas if you're granted asylum, you can, um, adjust to lawful permanent resident status a year later. So anyone, I mean, that's the, the key with, that's the draw of being granted asylum because you can stay permanently. Um, but with parole you can't. And that's one of the things that the Biden administration is running into with the Afghan parole program, because, you know, they flew these plane loads of Afghans with no vetting into the United States, and then said, oh, what do we do now? And they paroled them. So they have two years to stay and, and work permits, but what happens next? So they've just announced that the Afghans will be eligible for repro, which is a word I've never heard before. Um, so they're, they're just gonna apparently keep re-upping the parole status, just make it up as
Jenny Beth Martin: 31:57 They
Rosemary Jenks: 31:57 Go along. Yeah. But they still have no path to permanent status here. So, you know, it's all, I mean, once you start violating the law and making up your own law, you get twisted up into a, a circle of lies and, and policies that just don't work because you haven't thought it through. And that's where we are with the Biden administration.
Jenny Beth Martin: 32:18 So what is the solution? What do you think is the solution and what's happening in Congress?
Rosemary Jenks: 32:25 So the solution is in fact, HR two, the bill that the House of Representatives just passed, um, 219 to two 13 I think it was. Um, it is, it closes all of the loopholes that the administration has exploited. Um, it restricts parole eligibility dramatically. It says you can't do these categorical paroles for Cuba and Haiti and Venezuela and so on. Um, it reforms the asylum system so that it includes a safe third country provision. So if an alien comes through a safe third country on their way to the US border, they're ineligible to apply for asylum here unless they've applied for asylum in that safe third country. So, I mean, that would stop virtually all of the asylum applicants. Um, it increases the standard, the, uh, burden of proof for the credible fear interview, um, to more likely than not, rather than, uh, a possibility of, uh, success.
Rosemary Jenks: 33:29 And, um, it, it addresses the unaccompanied alien children problem by saying that children from every country in the world are going to be treated the same. And unless they are a victim of trafficking or, uh, have a fear of being persecuted, so an asylum claim, um, they will be sent home and reunited with their parents in their home country. Period. Um, it requires, for those who are found to be a victim of trafficking or have have a fear of persecution, they're still turned over to hhs. But HHS is required to vet the sponsors and to determine their immigration status. And if they're here illegally, which the vast majority are there to be turned over to ice, and ice is required to initiate removal proceedings. So the whole family will be reunited and then sent to their home country altogether as a family unit.
Jenny Beth Martin: 34:26 Uh, it, did you mention E-Verify
Rosemary Jenks: 34:29 Just now? It, I did not yet. It, it includes mandatory E-Verify. Um, so any illegal alien in the country who wants to get a job would not be able to get a job after probably four years, because agriculture, of course, gets a little, one of the special interests, gets a little extra time so that they can ramp up their use of the H two A program or, you know, start recruiting American work workers or mechanized. Um, but yes, every employer in the United States would be required to use E-Verify to verify the lawful work authorization of their employ of their new hires. So it doesn't affect current employees. Um, but the fact is, in industries where most illegal aliens work, there's pretty high turnover in those like service industries and construction and so on. So, um, we would kind of churn through the current illegal population.
Rosemary Jenks: 35:20 And, you know, we all know that the vast majority of people who are coming here illegally are coming for jobs. They're coming for more opportunity, better income. Um, and so if we take away that magnet, then they don't have a way to support themselves if they're here. And that means they don't have an incentive to come. So that's a, a critical part of it. Um, it also requires DHS to continue construction of the wall and to use the money that's already been appropriated to build n a minimum of, I think it's 900 miles. So they amended the Secure Fence Act, which was 750 miles to 900 miles. Um, it also defund the NGOs that are transporting, sheltering, or, um, let's see, lodging, transport and facilitating the entry and a few other words, but, so they can provide food and they can provide emergency medical care and that's it. Or they lose their government grant. Um, and finally, this is one of the things that has been happening in the past few months that is so unbelievable. The CBP one app. So the Department of Homeland Security, CBP
Jenny Beth Martin: 36:34 Is custom and Border patrol
Rosemary Jenks: 36:36 Border Protection. Yes. Protection. Yes. So CBP created an app several years ago actually, so that if you're a, a trucker and you're car carrying perishable cargo, you can use the app to call ahead to a port of entry to say, I'm coming, I need to get through quickly because I have perishable goods. You make an appointment to get an inspection, you get the inspection and you move on. So Secretary Myorca has decided that since they have this app, they might as well allow any illegal alien would be illegal alien to download the app on their smartphones, because they estimate DHS estimates that 80% of illegal aliens have smartphones. And isn't it nice that they've done that survey? Um, so they download this app on their smartphone and they can make an appointment to come to the port of entry. This is another way that they're funneling people to the ports of entry so that they can say that Border Patrol apprehensions are down.
Rosemary Jenks: 37:32 And so you make an appointment on the app, you show up at the appointed time, and the Department of Homeland Security lets you in and gives you parole or gives you a notice to appear in court in 10 years, nine years. Um, so what HR two does is say that we're gonna go back to the original use of the CBP one app, and that it can only be used to make an appointment for inspection of perishable cargo. So, um, that's kind of a, just a fun twist in the bill. But yeah, I mean, this is, this bill I believe has what is needed to actually stop the Biden border surge if it's enacted and if it's implemented.
Jenny Beth Martin: 38:11 And you said it's the most robust border security bill
Rosemary Jenks: 38:15 That in decades.
Jenny Beth Martin: 38:16 In decades, um, I now it passed a house. Is it gonna pass the Senate right now? No.
Rosemary Jenks: 38:26 No. Um, I hope that one of our Senate allies will do what's called Rule 14 it to put it on the Senate calendar. And Rule 14 is just a senate procedural rule, um, so that it can go directly on the Senate calendar and bypass the committee markup Pro process. That does not mean, however, that Chuck Schumer is going to bring it up for a vote. He obviously will not. Um, however, it may spur some of the Senate Democrats to start negotiating with Republicans on some kind of border package. And I think the closer we get to an election, the more desperate they become to at least give the appearance of stopping what's happening right now. Um, so, you know, I would also like to see a Senate Republican just introduce the companion version. So, you know, that person can be there to always talk about this, you know, whenever the Democrats say, well, we have a solution, and then the Republicans can say, no, no, we have the actual solution and we've got hopefully 49 co-sponsors.
Jenny Beth Martin: 39:38 That would be amazing, wouldn't it? We could get 49, I'd be happy 40 40. I'd be happy with 43 right now. So, um, the, okay, so it, even if that, that is what we want to happen, it's given the fact that Schumer controls the Senate and the Democrats control the Senate and Biden is in the White House, it probably won't become law right now. Right. So how is this different than sometimes in the past where it seems like Republicans are saying they wanna secure the border, but they don't really want to. How do you see this one strategically as being a bit different than, than just giving lip service?
Rosemary Jenks: 40:19 So, um, I have found myself in this very uncomfortable position several times in the past couple of months. And so what I'm going to say now, I hope I'll get to repeat again. Um, house Republican leadership has been amazing in this process. They worked hand in glove with us, with a whole coalition of organizations to make this bill as strong as it can be, and to get it through three committees and onto the house floor. They twisted arms. They, you know, had meeting after meeting after meeting, after meeting with the members who were like, oh, I, I, I represent Ag. I can't do E-Verify, or, oh, no, we can't, we can't do, you know, whatever little piece of it. Um, this would not have happened without the complete commitment of leadership. And, uh, as I said, I've been doing this issue since, well, since 1991, and I've never been on the same side as House Republican leadership or any leadership.
Jenny Beth Martin: 41:32 And just to be clear, in case people are listening and they hear the term leadership, but they don't know exactly what that means. It means the Speaker of the house and who else? The
Rosemary Jenks: 41:41 Majority leader and the whip. So, and the conference chair was, I think, on board too, but we weren't working directly with her. It was, you know, it was the Kevin McCarthy, Steve Scalise and Tom Emer were rock stars in this.
Jenny Beth Martin: 41:54 And, and we certainly did not have that with the previous two Republican, no speakers of the
Rosemary Jenks: 42:00 House. And in fact, the two previous Republican speakers of the house undermined our efforts directly.
Jenny Beth Martin: 42:06 So, so now we have leadership that, that it has passed a bill that is the most robust border security bill in decades. It, it won't likely pass the Senate at the current moment. Right. If Republicans were to win a majority in the Senate and Biden were no longer in the White House, how then could this bill, what, what could happen with a similar bill in the next, the same text, but a different bill in the next Congress?
Rosemary Jenks: 42:33 Yeah, I mean, this is the blueprint for Republicans going forward. Um, if we still, if you know, if God help us, if we're still in this position in January of 2025, this is the blueprint bill that Republicans can just pull out and, you know, pass and then get the next president to sign it into law and start implementing it.
Jenny Beth Martin: 42:56 It can be one of their day one or week one, month one type bills.
Rosemary Jenks: 43:00 Yeah. And it's a whole lot easier to go to some of these squishier Republicans and say, look, you've already voted for this. You're already on the record. It's not that hard to do it now. So, you know, it, it is a big deal to get members of Congress on the record. And it was a tough vote for a lot of them. It shouldn't have been, but it was. Um, but it's a, it's a really good bill.
Jenny Beth Martin: 43:22 Well, and it, and maybe it was a tough vote because they were doing things that they haven't ever done before. I mean, the way that the House conference is working right now, the Republican Conference in the house is working right now. They're working and functioning differently than they have previously because of some of the rules change, not just some of, because of the rules changes from January.
Rosemary Jenks: 43:44 Yeah. And I think that, I mean, I've had quite a number of people say to me, well, this is kind of amazing. I mean, this is like proof that that Republicans can, you know, come together and do something. And it is, it really is. And I think that's the, the lesson of, you know, all the votes in January for the speakership. Um, they're all, they all want to work together and get things done. I
Jenny Beth Martin: 44:12 I spoke to a congressman or a couple of congressmen just the other day, and one of the things that they said is, oh, everything is a fight. It's always a fight. Everything is a fight in Washington dc. And I said, so when you say it's all a fight, who, who are you fighting with? Oh, everybody. And I said, well, does that mean you're fighting within, within the Republican conference, or are you fighting with, with the Democrats and the Senate? And, and they said, oh, we have hardly any disagreement within the conference right now. And I, I think they're used to saying it's always, always a fight. But then when they, when I pressed and, and they stepped back, they're like, yeah, we're actually getting along and, and getting things done for, for the first time. So it it for you saying that you appreciate what leadership is doing and for these other members to say, actually yeah, we're, we're pretty unified as a conference. Yeah. And, and some of them may have taken tough votes because they, they were dug in on positions previously. Yeah. But now they're like, okay, how can we get this, get this passed?
Rosemary Jenks: 45:12 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it really, it's something that I have not seen before in all these years. And, um, I hope we continue to see it going forward. Uh, it'd be nice to see it in the Senate too. It
Jenny Beth Martin: 45:24 Would be
Rosemary Jenks: 45:31 So, Senator Durbin and a whole bunch of Senate Democrats just this week introduced a bill that is the very last thing that you would wanna pass if you have the border chaos that we have. It basically throws money at dhs, gives them a ton more money so that they can process more people in faster. Um, the, uh,
Jenny Beth Martin: 45:57 Analogy, it's so bad. It's so bad.
Rosemary Jenks: 45:59 I mean, it's just unbelievable. Um, and they've got, they've got a couple little provisions that they increase penalties for smugglers and they increase penalties for the spotters we were talking about. Um, so basically it allows them to say, we are tough on the cartels and we're tough on the smugglers, the really bad ones, but all the rest of these people, they're poor and they should get in. Um, so I was talking to, uh, someone else today and, and he said, well, how would you compare HR two with the Durban bill? And I just laughed and said, there is no comparison. But then I said, well, it's like if you have a water leak in your basement, the first thing you do is go turn off the water. You shut off the water, Maine. Right. So HR two is shutting off the water. Maine, the Senate bill is paying people to go in and start mopping while they're still water gushing onto the floor.
Jenny Beth Martin: 46:53 A and maybe pulling the, pulling it apart a little bit further because Yeah.
Rosemary Jenks: 46:59 You, if you're plugging in something electric in the water
Jenny Beth Martin: 47:02
Rosemary Jenks: 48:13 That's absolutely true. And you know, one of the things that's really offensive along those lines is that US Citizenship and Immigration Services, which is the agency that has to process the work authorization applications and some parts of the asylum applications and so on, um, they're funded by fees, paid by people who wanna come here legally. So you pay U S C I S a fee to file a petition, and the sponsor has to pay to file, you know, all the sponsorship papers and all that kind of stuff. That's the money that's being used to process these illegal aliens. So the
Jenny Beth Martin: 48:50 People who are here legally working through the process legally are paying the way for the people who are breaking the law to come here. It's just,
Rosemary Jenks: 49:00 It's even a little bit worse than that because it's the people who are still in the legal pipeline who are still paying the money and are not here yet, they're watching these floods of illegal aliens come in and their money is being used not to process their applications because those are all on hold. Nobody has time for that. Well,
Jenny Beth Martin: 49:20 And
Rosemary Jenks: 49:20 To process the illegals,
Jenny Beth Martin: 49:21 People are breaking in line in front of them. Oh, absolutely. And they're paying for them to break in line hundreds, thousands
Rosemary Jenks: 49:26 Of breaking
Jenny Beth Martin: 49:27 In line in front of them. Right. Yeah. And that's not fair or right to the people who want follow the law. That's right. It's just wrong. And, and it's not humanitarian. No. And it's not compassionate. Lawlessness is not compassionate. Yeah.
Rosemary Jenks: 49:39 And, you know, why would we destroy the greatest country on earth, the country that is a beacon for all these people? Why would we destroy that by eliminating the rule of law, the, the foundation of our nation?
Jenny Beth Martin: 49:56 It's part of what sets America apart Absolutely. And set America apart from so many other countries because we're writing down the laws and you can, anyone can see what the law is plainly, so they know where they're gonna get into legal jeopardy and how to avoid it. But when you start getting rid of that Yep. And it's just sort of the whims of man, then you never know if you're on the right side of the man who's making the decision or not.
Rosemary Jenks: 50:20 Yeah. Well, and if an illegal alien can just come across the border and get all the benefits that I, as a United States have, then why do I have to pay my taxes? Right. You know, why do I have to obey traffic laws? What's the difference?
Jenny Beth Martin: 50:35 And it, and then it just, and it it goes from there. Yeah. And, and more lawlessness breeds lawlessness. Yeah. And,
Rosemary Jenks: 50:43 And we're seeing that, you know, we've got a massive increase in lawlessness across this
Jenny Beth Martin: 50:47 Country, a massive increase in crime. And I think that the increase in crime, it certainly has to do with the defund the police effort, but it also has to do with the fact that if you're not enforcing the law That's right. And people think, oh, I, I can get away with breaking a window, or I can get away with stealing a car, then yeah. I can get away with holding you at, at gun or knife point and and mugging you. Right. Or killing you, or whatever it might be next. Yep.
Rosemary Jenks: 51:13 That's absolutely right.
Jenny Beth Martin: 51:14 Um, and we do live in the greatest country on earth, and, and we have to protect it not just for ourselves and for our children and for our fellow citizens, but for all those other people who do want to come here so that they can try to Well, so they can live their own American dream.
Rosemary Jenks: 51:32 Well, and also so that we can be an example for the people who wanna change their own countries. You know, what kind of example are we setting now?
Jenny Beth Martin: 51:41 And if you truly are seeking, um, asylum because of the traditional problems with asylum, the goal is supposed to be that eventually you're, you're, we solve the problems in your country so you can go back to your country. Yeah. And it it,
Rosemary Jenks: 51:57 Well, and if you really are in fear of persecution by your home government, it shouldn't take you nine years to get a hearing in the United States.
Jenny Beth Martin: 52:06 Absolutely not. That's not fair or right either. No, it, it, it's, it is completely broken. Um, I, I'm afraid it might get a bit worse before it gets better. I hope that this inspires everyone to get active and involved because we have to win in 2024 if we want, if we want HR two to become law, if we want to secure the border and stop all of this, then we are going to have to change the makeup of the Senate, hold the house, and change who is in the White House. Yeah. And it, it isn't fun. People listening to this are not going to wanna hear that because they want the solution right now. And I do too. Yeah. Um, but I also wanna make sure that they understand it's not completely hopeless because Yeah. We have the opportunity to, to correct course. Yeah. In about 18 months from now and
Rosemary Jenks: 53:00 We know what to do, you know, we know what tools we need, we know how to use them, we know what the process is, we just have to get there.
Jenny Beth Martin: 53:08 That's exactly right. Um, uh, Rosemary, how can people find out more in, uh, information about Numbers USA if they want to get involved, you've got great, a great website Action items. How can they get involved?
Rosemary Jenks: 53:21 We're at Numbers usa.com. Um, we're also on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and all of the things. Um, we, our, our big service is we wanna connect Americans to their members of Congress. It's free. You have to sign up, you have to give your address and your phone number because members of Congress require those, that, those pieces of information in order to accept communications. Um, but, you know, we'll give you the information, we'll write the emails, we'll give you calling notes, you know, talking points, um, and make it as easy as possible for any American to contact their member of Congress and tell them what they think about what's happening and what needs to be done and what our immigration policy should look like.
Jenny Beth Martin: 54:07 That is very good. Well, um, is there anything else that you wanna say about the issue before we close out? I just wanna make sure that I haven't left anything out that you wanna say. I
Rosemary Jenks: 54:18 Think we've covered it. Jenny, be
Jenny Beth Martin: 54:20 I think so. I think so. But you and I got worked up. We have. And we probably could talk for a few more hours about it, cuz we care about it so much. Absolutely. Well, I wanna thank you so much Rosemary Jenks from Numbers USA for being here and for, for going through all of this so people understand the problem at the border, the possible solutions and how we can make a difference.
Rosemary Jenks: 54:39 It's been my pleasure, Jenny Beth, thank you for having me.
Narrator: 54:42 The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Mooney hand and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots org.
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