Jenny Beth sits down with former Member of Congress Bob McEwen who is running to be the next National Committeeman to the RNC from Ohio. Bob tells why he is running and gives a history lesson on America and why she can, and must be saved.
Jenny Beth sits down with former Member of Congress Bob McEwen who is running to be the next National Committeeman to the RNC from Ohio. Bob tells why he is running and gives a history lesson on America and why she can, and must be saved.
Twitter/X: @BobMcEwen | @jennybethm
Website: https://cfnp.org/
Bob McEwen (00:00):
If these same people that hate America are successful in opening our border, in denying us the right to use the energy to keep us independent and destroy the American dollar as the international currency, that the world in 2028 will be a more destructive place from which America can never again achieve. Premiership
Narrator (00:19):
Keeping our republic is on the line and it requires Patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author, a filmmaker, and one of time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she is most proud of is Mom To Her Boy, girl Twins. She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:51):
My next guest is a former member of Congress who served for six terms during the 1980s and early nineties. Bob McEwen is the executive Director for the Council for National Policy, and he's running to be the next national committee man to the RNC from the great state of Ohio. Bob McEwen, thank you so much for joining me today.
Bob McEwen (01:11):
Jenny Beth, I am a fan. I'm honored to be with you.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:13):
Well, I appreciate everything that you do and I've learned so much about you over the last several years with work that we've done with Council for National Policy. You are the executive director of that. You used to be a congressman and now you're actually running for national committeeman to the Republican National Committee from Ohio. Why are you doing that?
Bob McEwen (01:37):
Well, many people, when they look at the National Party, the Republican Party, they say, why doesn't the party do this? And why doesn't the party do that? And most people don't realize as to how the Republican National Committee, well, quite frankly, both of the national committees are run, and that is that they have a committee man and a committee woman from each state, and they're elected differently In most of the states in Ohio, they're elected by the Central Committee. Now people don't even know what that is, but the fact is that in Ohio, for example, every senate district and there's 33 state senators in Ohio, each one has a man and woman from that district. They then choose one man from each state, one woman from each state as the National Committee Man and Committee woman and I have watched the National Party in recent years, and it seems to me that they dropped the ball on a lot of things.
Bob McEwen (02:28):
For example, people talk about inflation and they say how the inflation has come down. The White House keeps saying how inflation has come down. Well, what they did a few months ago, actually a couple of years ago, was that the Biden administration said, what's really causing trouble here? The price of food has gone up between 30 and 40%. The price of gasoline has gone up from 25 to 35%. That is really killing people financially. So here's what we'll do. We'll take food and gasoline out of the CPI, the consumer price index. So when we calculate it, it doesn't register. So when it's just the price of sand or oil or sand or apples or something, it won't show quite as much. Well, a congressman can't take that on. A governor can't rail against the President for doing that. He can mention it a couple of times, but that's about it. The National Party should say, look, folks, this is a lie. The consumer price index always included food and always included the price of gasoline. The price of gasoline affects everything that we buy gets to market, how it gets home and they're playing a game now. That's what a National Party should do. But I've been a little frustrated lately that the Republican National Party has not been doing much. Therefore, I decided to seek the support of the state committee in Ohio.
Jenny Beth Martin (03:48):
Very good. And if you're on the committee, what are the kind of changes that you would like to see? Oftentimes, I think people think the committee just exists to help elect a president and raise a bunch of money. And oftentimes people have no idea where the money is going.
Bob McEwen (04:03):
And that's exactly right. I look at the National Committee as a board of directors, and that is if the president who's making the decision of a company is going on the rocks, it's not just his responsibility. That board of directors was supposed to be watching those decisions. And here we are, 231 days from an election, a national presidential election in which the National Party had to borrow money just to stay alive. Now anyone knows that that should be the other way around. The most money in the bank should be a couple of hundred days before an election. That's when you've got the money piled up up until now, now it's the final days of the stretch. You begin to spend it down. They're starting below zero. That's just an example. Now how does that happen? It happens because of weakened leadership and because of a board of directors that allowed it to happen. So President Trump a couple of weeks ago in Houston said, we need a new leadership. And so they've chosen a new chairman, they've chosen a new vice chairman, and they've chosen some new leadership and they're going to try to clean it up, they say, and I want to help them do that.
Jenny Beth Martin (05:03):
Very good. And in Ohio you said it's a central committee who elect you? How does one become a central committee? Man, what is
Bob McEwen (05:11):
That? That's a very good question and everyone listening should really think about this because they should know that all over America, every county has a county central committee, either Democrat or Republican. And in most cases, it's for a person representing a precinct. The precinct where you vote, there's usually one person from that precinct. And lemme just tell you this, in most instances, a third to two thirds of those are empty. And what happens is that if there's going to be anyone there at all, because nobody ran for them, that the third that was elected, they'll get together and they'll try to call their friends, well, can we fill your, would you take this job for free? Would you help do this? And if a person really cares, all they have to do is find out what precinct they're in at the Board of Elections, you just make a phone call, you go online, easily look up Board of elections for your county, look up state central committee, look at your precinct, see if there's anyone there.
Bob McEwen (06:01):
And if there is, then that's the person who's your central committee person or you may run yourself. It usually takes about five signatures to put your name on the ballot. Every American should do that. Now, in each one of those counties, they then have a state committee and that's elected differently according to how the state operates. As I mentioned in Ohio, our state committee is made up of two people from each state senate district, 33 Senate districts, 33 times 2 66 members of the state committee. They then, whatever the state committee is, any place in America, that state committee meets once every two years to choose a chairman of the party, a state chairman, and a national committee man and a national committee woman. So in Ohio, on May 19th, they had the election of the state committee team, and then they will meet over the next month or so to choose the National Committee man
Jenny Beth Martin (06:49):
On March 19th. On
Bob McEwen (06:50):
March 19th. March 19th, excuse me. Yes.
Jenny Beth Martin (06:52):
And so then over the next month they pick the next national committee man and committee woman from Ohio. Exactly. And you've decided, even though you've been a congressman, you run a national organization, you've decided that you think it's this important to part of your time to be on the national committee?
Bob McEwen (07:12):
Well, let me explain how that came about is because you can't unlearn something. And that's why I like to teach people how to register to vote. Because many people, if you go to a church for example, half of those people are not registered to vote. Now many of them would like to, and they say they agree and they'll pray for the folks and all, but they don't know what the next step is. And if you can just show them how to register to vote and then show up, then they can do something about it. And so as I am aware of that, and I see how the national committee runs and most people don't know how it does run, and I see that these people are really making millions of dollars running failed campaigns for senate in Pennsylvania, for example, or who are these people that they have their private jets, they have islands in the Mediterranean, in the Caribbean and their consultants. And so I see their contracts and some of them, one person just did absolutely nothing, and I saw he's getting a contract for $50,000 a month. And so you can't know those things and sleep quietly. I've done it long enough and that is that what can you do? I can light a candle and that's what I seek to do.
Jenny Beth Martin (08:26):
Very good. Now, you were a congressman. When did you first become a congressman and how long were you a member of
Bob McEwen (08:34):
Congress? Well, I was a member of the state legislature first in Ohio and Columbus for three terms. And then during Reagan and Bush, I was a member for six terms in the US Congress. During that time, they formed a group called the Council for National Policy. It was a result of the fact that in a discussion with Mr. Bush, the vice presidential running mate, they mentioned that he wasn't helping Mr. Reagan very much. And he said, well, why don't you trust me? And he said, well, you belong to these various council and Foreign Relations Council, the Trilateral Commission. And he just shout. He said, well, you conservatives don't have anything like that. And the room got real quiet as everybody looked at each other and thought, you really can't argue with that. Mr. Reagan's first term, a handful of folks that were in that room there and others across the country said, we need to form an organization that isn't just another organization to do whatever, but an organization that can bring people together to work together.
Bob McEwen (09:28):
It's sort of like I say, the Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber of Commerce doesn't sell shoes, doesn't sell cars, doesn't sell houses, but it has people that do. And so the Council for National Policy was not an organization to do certain things. It was an organization to bring people together who do do those things. And it meets three times a year, and my wife and I were privileged to join the third meeting. You have to be sponsored as a limit of 400 members. And fortunately, currently it has excellent leadership. In fact, the Secretary of the Council for National Policy is Jenny Beth Martin, who understands government and family is better than anyone that I know. And so it's under its leadership. What we do is we bring people together to accomplish their goals and we are disciplined about it. People say everybody, for example, in 2016, every presidential candidate, but one came to speak and in 2020 the president comes and things.
Bob McEwen (10:23):
So it's a place where people come together to work as a team, and they say with all of that clout, why CNP, the Council for National Policy could do this. And CNP could do that. In my responsibility now as the daily operations, I have to be cautious to make sure that we don't do those things. We direct 'em to the organizations that actually do. So whether it be the Tea Party Patriots or whether it be Citizens United or whether it be the Heritage Foundation and the list of all these great organizations, we empower them and strengthen them to do what they do best.
Jenny Beth Martin (10:56):
And it really is an amazing organization. So it began back during the Reagan Bush years
Bob McEwen (11:03):
March of 1981, Mr. Reagan's first year in office.
Jenny Beth Martin (11:07):
And when were you first elected to
Bob McEwen (11:08):
Congress? Same time at the same time. I was Reagan's co-chairman in 1976, and we lost Ohio very narrowly. They didn't want to contest that, and a handful of us in the state legislature put his name on the ballot and did it anyway. And in Kansas City in 1976 when Mr. Ford went over and the bands played and the balloons dropped and all, they cut away to Ronald Reagan's suite and they said, well, tell us governor, if you had anything to do over again, would you do anything differently? And as I said, we did this all on our own. We didn't get a bumper sticker from the National Party and we got through our own little elbow grease. We got 45% of the boat and so on that night in Kansas City, and as Mr. Ford went over, he cut to Governor Reagan, if you had anything to do over, what would you do it different? He said, I would've spent 24 hours in Ohio and to which he and I were very close for many, many years and we never flew on Air Force One or went to Ohio. But what we didn't relive that experience and said, I told you you could have.
Bob McEwen (12:16):
But nevertheless, we both got elected to Washington. I came to Congress with him in 1980.
Jenny Beth Martin (12:23):
And then you were a congressman until 1993. Three. What do you think is similar to how Congress works today to when you were in office and what is different between now and then?
Bob McEwen (12:38):
Well, that's kind of hard to explain a great deal because there's not a whole lot of appreciation for it. And because there's a certain amount of misunderstanding. And one of the worst things that has happened to Congress is that if we don't pay them enough and whenever you want to increase pay, they've only had 17 pay increases in the history of the country. They've only had two in the last 30 years, and as a result, they can't live properly. That means you get very, very wealthy people that could run or you get people who are extremely dedicated or you get bartenders that are bored and they become congresswomen from New York and wield great power because the small town business person or farmer or whatever cannot make that kind of a sacrifice. Well, over a third, perhaps a half of all the members of Congress sleep on the floor of their offices that they cannot afford to stay.
Bob McEwen (13:30):
And as a result, the wives and family don't come. And when the wives and family don't come, then that creates a whole new dynamic. As I say, if you're a congressman from Utah, do you want to fly to Washington to sleep on the floor? And the answer is no. So you come at the very last chance to go in there and vote and you leave at the very first opportunity. Now, for most of our history, members of Congress were allowed to earn money as long as they reported it, it'd be fine. People could make a decision. It's no longer possible. It was against the law. It is against the law
Bob McEwen (14:03):
For a member of Congress to earn money. If a member of Congress paints his neighbor's barn in August or the summertime and gets paid $600 for it, that is a felony. So he's not allowed to earn money, and as a result, he can't have the home in Washington where his wife can be. So he goes home to them so that then you can have neighbors know each other across the street in the office, up and down the congressional corridors where your children know each other and your wives know each other and you're able to work as a team and as a result, you get down to one or two decision makers. You get the leader of the Democrat party and the leader of the Republican Party, and they make all the decisions and everybody else doesn't have much cloud because, and then again, the other part that people don't fully appreciate is that there's massive, massive turnover all the time.
Bob McEwen (14:50):
And if you ask the average person how long a person serves in Congress, I was at a term limits meeting in Las Vegas a while back, and these were all experts. These were people of Los Angeles Times and all I said, what percentage of the United States Senate are in their first year, their first term, in their freshman term, all they wanted to talk about Mitch McConnell talk about. I said, you understand the question, answer the question. And they didn't want to answer it because 55, more than half of all the members of the US Senate were in their first term. You could easily look at every, in the House of Representatives, there's 4 35 each freshman class is about 80 or so, 80 times three is 240. So that means that half of the Congress has now been there five years and you can't run a barbershop, you can't run a hospital, you can't run a grocery store with constant turnover. And yet, but that's a fight for another day.
Jenny Beth Martin (15:45):
But that's an interesting way to think of it. So when the family comes to DC, then they get to know other families and they build relationships a little more. Or alternatively they can go home and work. And I think that the founders probably never expected Congress to be full-time the way it is, but if you're not even allowed to work when you leave, then you can't be part-time in one thing or the other. Yeah,
Bob McEwen (16:12):
Yeah. And Rand Paul tried to get a dispensation so that he could maintain his medical license on weekends and things, but that's very complicated effort to do. And a handful of folks with licenses might be able to give an exemption, but I don't know of any at the present time,
Jenny Beth Martin (16:31):
I think that when Congressman Paul Brown was in office, he still was able to be in the reserves so he could still practice medicine through his work in the reserves,
Bob McEwen (16:44):
And they can still perform services, but they just can't charge. Wow.
Jenny Beth Martin (16:48):
Wow, that's really interesting. Well,
Bob McEwen (16:51):
Howard Baker said one time, he said, it's standing logic on his head to think that the 535 people responsible for the American Free Enterprise system are directly locked out of it. But nevertheless, we have other problems as well. But that's one that people should not dismiss the fact that the Congress is dysfunctional as it is. I credit to the fact that they don't know each other. And my wife is with some congressional wives at the moment. They're preparing once a year, they do an organization called the First Lady's Luncheon, and so they're preparing for it. And they mentioned that one gal said, oh, you're the other political party. They mentioned it and they said, oh, and they just all turned and walked away from her. And that would've never happened years ago. But now it's become increasingly partisan, which becomes ineffective in my judgment.
Jenny Beth Martin (17:45):
Okay, now let's shift to the future. We've got a presidential race and there's a lot at stake with that. Why do you think it would be important to change who is in the White House? And I know that you are here, you're talking about being on the National Committee, you're really here in your own capacity. So I think you can talk about the campaign, however you would like to talk about the campaign.
Bob McEwen (18:10):
Well, I'm not sure everybody fully appreciates the significance of America, and that is there's only one primary nation on earth. And in my study of history, no nation has become the premier nation on earth. But what it didn't seek it, it knew what it had to do there, whether it be the Romans or the French or the Peloponnesian or the English or the Spanish, they knew what they had to do. The single exception to that is the United States of America. After World War ii, a telegram April 7th, 1947, was sent from the Prime Minister of Great Britain who had run the world for 250 years. Lemme just pause there for a second, because everyone post World War II generation, they think we always did that. Prior to World War ii, the United States was not a major player internationally. On the day that we were bombed in Pearl Harbor, December 7th, 1941, America had the 17th largest army in the world, smaller than Romania, but no diplomatic decisions were made, all diplomatic decisions were made by the British.
Bob McEwen (19:06):
They were the primary power. And on that day in 47, a telegram was sent from Clement Atley to Harry Truman asking the United States to intervene in the Cypress crisis. If it did not, the crown had neither the capacity nor the will to intervene. And with that, the torch was passed to a nation that did not ask for it, did not seek it, but purely because of the righteousness of its cause. The world looked to it for leadership. Well, there's lots of chaos in the world. So the United States said people didn't want to invest in Germany because they had these marks that were of no value, and the French had francs that were of no value, and the Italians had Lyra that were no value, and so everybody was starving and there was great chaos. And so the United States of America invited the people together and said, I know you don't trust the Lyra, you don't trust the mark, but here's what we'll do.
Bob McEwen (19:52):
You trust the dollar. So every time you don't trust the mark, if you bring us five marks, we'll give you a dollar, and if you don't trust the ly every time you give a seven ly, we'll give you a dollar. And people began to trust those currencies thereafter because America stood firm and they knew that it was firm and that gave us the growth of the post World War II growth. That never been a time in history. That's just one part. Secondly, America is a standard for righteousness in the world. That is in the Star-Spangled Banner, what was the war of 1812 about? Well, the war of 1812 was about that the English in a fight with the French Napoleon were having a battle, and in the course of the battle, they needed more ships. If you're the most powerful nation on earth, what do you do?
Bob McEwen (20:37):
You go take them. Who's going to stop you? So you go take the ships and the sailors and you go into battle? Well, America, all 7 million of them said, you don't do that to us. So we declared war on the British. And so they came and of course as they burned the city to the ground and then in Baltimore where they tried to take down Baltimore, but the flags still flown and in the process of it, they reached an agreement. United States had peace after 1812. But that is an example of what happens when a nation is the premier nation on earth. It can do as it once, and America has never ever done that. If a ship is a attack in the high seas has happened over 300 times last year, they know to whom can they appeal? I don't care if it's a yacht in the Mediterranean or a trawler in the South China Sea or an oil tanker in the straits of who it belongs to.
Bob McEwen (21:24):
The British ruled the world for 200 years and then they need help. Who did they call? The 327,000 Americans wear the uniform of the United States Navy and the entire world knows whether they be pirates in Djibouti or Somalia, they know if I go attack that ship, even though it belongs to Amsterdam, America is going to put a stop to it. So we are the standard for righteousness and we treat people fairly. We have the Panama Canal. You show up at the Panama Canal, you get in line. I don't care if you're on American ship or anybody else because we treat everybody the same. Well, when Jimmy Carter gave away, because we lost that fight in 1976 with Ronald Reagan when Jimmy Carter gave away the Panama Canal. Now currently there are Chinese bases at both ends of the Panama Canal. There is an effort for the Chinese to become their premier nation on earth, and when it does, the world will be a totally different place.
Bob McEwen (22:12):
Let's take the South China Sea, 70%. I'll pause and let people think about that for a second. From 66 to 70% of all maritime traffic on the planet goes through the South China Sea. Now America keep those shipping lanes safe. Japan, fourth largest economy in the world imports a hundred percent of their oil. Let us suppose that America is not the premier nation on earth. Suppose China maintains the shipping lanes in the South China Sea and China can simply say to the Japanese, I think there's going to be a 25% surcharge on all oil going to Japan unless you break relationships with Israel. Now the Japanese diet is going to have to sit there. Are we going to allow our economy to be strangled and destroyed or do we keep that embassy over there In Israel, the world would be a totally different place if China controls the Panama Canal as they have the potential to do shortly, and they would say, we don't like American ships. You can go around South America.
Bob McEwen (23:17):
There is no nation in the history of the world that has been as fair and just as the United States. Now, all of that is under attack. And so I mentioned about the currency that you could either have gold in your reserve or you have American dollars. It was the same and Barack Obama understood that. He wrote in his book how he saw that that gave America power, and so he set about to undo it. It took him two terms. In October of 2015, he made the greatest accomplishment of his administration and the most damaging thing to America. He got the International Monetary Fund, a group organized and led by America since World War ii. He turned against the United States and asked them, he asked the members of the International Monetary Fund if they would choose the Chinese Juan as a substitute for the US dollar and for gold to make it the reserve currency also.
Bob McEwen (24:08):
And all of our allies said, no, no, no, we don't want to do that. We don't want to do that. The United States said, yes, we do. Yes we do. And he successfully got lagar appointed head of the IMF, and they accomplished that. Now, that's the vulnerability first of all. Secondly, now in October of 2023, the brick nations met in South Africa and Barack Obama called the 22 most vulnerable nations, including Mexico, by the way, to go meet in South Africa at the Brick Conference. The brick stands for Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Those are the four largest economies that want to make a substitute to America. And he asked them if they would agree to begin using a Chinese substitute currency, not the one necessarily, but a new currency that the Chinese would control, and that would be the new international currency over the next two years.
Bob McEwen (24:59):
Would they be willing to do that? And they agreed that they are and they will. You may have seen the interview with Tucker Carlson and Vladimir Putin the other day, in which he mentioned that two and a half years ago, all transactions, international transactions from the Russians were in dollars. It's now only 13% in dollars. And he said he looked at Tucker Carlson and America and said, I don't know why America did that, but why did they put sanctions on Russia like that so that we forced us to not use the American dollar? That's what Biden is doing at the moment. So I believe that this election in November of 2024, if these same people that hate America are successful in opening our border, in denying us the right to use the energy to keep us independent and destroy the American dollar as the international currency, that the world in 2028 will be a more destructive place from which America can never again achieve premiership. Therefore, I can safely say without hesitancy, I believe this is the most important election in my lifetime, perhaps in the history of the United States. From the very beginning, our nation is now elected a leadership that has the potential of sinking it that, of doing it in, of doing harm to it, not just from incompetent leadership as we had may have in the 1850s, but by deliberately sabotaging our nation. And that's the difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, and that's why we must win this election.
Jenny Beth Martin (26:29):
Absolutely, we must win and we must make sure that Trump gets back in there and that we gain control of the Senate and hold the house so he can actually pass legislation to restore it, to advance his agenda, to clean
Bob McEwen (26:42):
It up. That's right, that's right. And it can be done. It can be done. Just a reminder for those that are old enough to remember the 1970s. The 1970s was like this. New York was a hellhole spray paint everywhere. People urinating on themselves on the street corners America, 18% inflation, 22% interest rates. Jimmy Carter going around kissing Bren on the cheek and saying America needed to get over. Its inordinate fear of communism. More nations went communist under Jimmy Carter than any president since Truman America was on a state of decline in every area and proved proper leadership. Ronald Reagan said on election night in 1980, he said, there's nothing wrong with this country that proper leadership can't cure. And so he began to cut taxes, restore the economy by 1989. By the end of the decade, the entire world was chanting U-S-A-U-S-A-U-S-A. So that's why they feared Donald Trump so much because they know the greatness of the American people.
Bob McEwen (27:36):
They know that he wants to make America great, and that's what they despise. They want China to be great. They want the globalists to be great. They don't want America to be great. Why? Because America stands for righteousness. America stands for what's right. When somebody wants to do something goofy, some parliament in New Zealand or Australia, they'll say, well, in America they're doing it. You use America as the standard. They always have. We've been the righteous one, and now we have folks that want to do the same thing they did in the 1970s. They want to make our cities into hell holes. They want to drive up inflation, they want to have gas lines again. Now remember here we are 50 years later and we have more gasoline under our soil than any nation on earth. Think what it was when Jimmy was there, and yet we had gas lines because liberals can foul up a two car funeral. They can make anything chaos, and that's what they're in the process of doing. There's nothing wrong with America that Donald Trump is president couldn't cure.
Jenny Beth Martin (28:31):
And I think that's why it's so important for you to actually be elected to the Republican National Committee. We need people who understand what's at stake and why the next nine months, eight months are so important between now and election day.
Bob McEwen (28:44):
Well, if we have any friends in Ohio, I would be privileged to do that so they can contact their county chairman and put in a good word for Bob McEwen. Well
Jenny Beth Martin (28:52):
Make sure that you do that if you're in Ohio so that you tell your county chairman to vote for Bob McEwen for National Committee. Man, Bob, thank you so much for being with us today.
Bob McEwen (29:03):
Well, let me say more than that. Jenny Beth, thank you for what you do. You are a result of what in the election in 2008 when people just lost hope and lost faith, and across the country, just Americans, not an organization, not powerful, just Americans got together and said, no, our country's worth saving. And you left your job in order to help corral those folks in order to do what was right. You made a change and stopped the digression that we were collapsing into in 2009 and 2010, and that stopped it locally. Unfortunately, Barack Obama could still do damage internationally as we've seen through wars and all the rest. But no one has been more successful in that. That is people that are not in elected office. But because again, just like America, because of the righteousness of your cause, because of your commitment to doing what is good for our country, people have rallied around you and you have the largest leadership of the Tea Party Organization for which I as an American who love this country say thank you very much.
Jenny Beth Martin (30:07):
Thank you, Bob. I appreciate that and thank you so much for joining me today.
Bob McEwen (30:12):
Anytime. Thanks, Jenny Beth.
Narrator (30:13):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Han and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.
Jenny Beth Martin (30:33):
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