In this episode of The Jenny Beth Show, author and historian Craig Shirley returns to explore Ronald Reagan's presidency and its profound impact on American politics. Shirley breaks down Reagan's strategies, including the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), which played a key role in defeating the Soviet Union, and his implementation of supply-side economics that revived the U.S. economy. The discussion also delves into Reagan's post-presidency achievements, including his efforts to establish the Reagan Library and his knighthood by the Queen of England. Tune in for an insightful look at Reagan's enduring legacy, his optimistic leadership, and the lessons we can draw from his influence on conservatism and global affairs.
In this episode of The Jenny Beth Show, author and historian Craig Shirley returns to explore Ronald Reagan's presidency and its profound impact on American politics. Shirley breaks down Reagan's strategies, including the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), which played a key role in defeating the Soviet Union, and his implementation of supply-side economics that revived the U.S. economy. The discussion also delves into Reagan's post-presidency achievements, including his efforts to establish the Reagan Library and his knighthood by the Queen of England. Tune in for an insightful look at Reagan's enduring legacy, his optimistic leadership, and the lessons we can draw from his influence on conservatism and global affairs.
Twitter/X: @CraigSmpa | @jennybethm
Craig Shirley (00:00):
Who thought about SDI, who thought about enterprise zones, who thought about tax cuts, who thought about all these other initiatives that were designed to take power away from the state and give it back to the individual? And it was all done creatively, and it was all done because of the American Conservative movement and the movement led by Ronald Reagan
Narrator (00:21):
Keeping Our Republic is on the line, and it requires Patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author of filmmaker and one of time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she's most proud of is Mom To Her Boy, girl Twins. She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:53):
Ever wondered how a single man's vision could reshape an entire nation's future? Today, we'll continue our conversation with Craig Shirley, the New York Times bestselling author in renowned Reagan historian. In the second part of our two-part series, Craig Delves Deeper into the Remarkable Presidency of Ronald Reagan. We'll explore how Reagan's strategies not only defeated the Soviet Union, but also revived the American economy. Craig shared stories from behind the scenes of the Reagan administration offering a unique glimpse into the decisions that defined an era. If you thought part one was captivating, you're in for an even greater treat as we uncover more of Reagan's legacy and his lasting impact on American politics. Earlier in the interview you mentioned something about being involved with SDI and Ronald Reagan. Talk about why was the Strategic Defense Initiative important and what happened during Reagan's presidency? Well,
Craig Shirley (01:49):
Regarding that, it upset the balance. We'd have been operating in a state of what was called mutually assured destruction. Right? If we push the button and the Soviets push a button and we wipe out everybody, and that was the way we operated from the 1950s up until the 19, early 1980s, and SDI was, Reagan always hated a yin or yang choice. He liked third options, right? He liked, I don't want to just take one from column A or one from column B. I want to see what's over here in column C and SDI was a new argument to nuclear war, which is that we can knock down Soviet missiles and never have them hit American homeland, and we can win the Cold War. That way we can actually defeat the Soviets and SDI is that the Soviets believed, and we did, believed Americans. They had the technology to pull it off with the ground-based system, with the space-based system, with other forms of interception, is that we had the technology to knock down Soviet missiles.
Craig Shirley (03:00):
And this scared, which is why Gorbachev, why the famous Revic meeting broke down. Can you imagine Gorbachev going back to the Soviet generals and saying, because the proposal on the table was getting rid of Soviet, say, we'll, get rid of these intermediate nuclear missiles. If you get rid of SDI, you get your research and development. Now, SDI was just a theory then. It wasn't practical. It was just theory. And Reagan says, no. And so can you imagine Gora going back to his, going back to his Soviet generals that says, no, I didn't take the Americans offer to get rid of missiles because Reagan wouldn't give up his theory. What?
Jenny Beth Martin (03:44):
Yeah, real hard,
Craig Shirley (03:47):
Right? Real hard exchanges in exchange for an idea. But Reagan knew that Americans could develop the technology and the technology exists today, iron Dome over Israel, and we all saw it when all those missiles were coming in from Iran, and we saw the Israeli missiles knocking them down,
Jenny Beth Martin (04:08):
And we saw it also in the beginning of the Gulf War. Right? We saw the
Craig Shirley (04:12):
Same smart bombs. Yeah. Yes.
Jenny Beth Martin (04:14):
It was all research in theory. And you talked about the Wright brothers, and you talked about the different things that we've developed in our country and also about the founders. One of the things, and I did a whole, I've done documentaries two on this and a whole different podcast series on this, but the patent system and intellectual property in America and the way that we treat intellectual property, the property in somebody's mind as the same as this land
Craig Shirley (04:45):
Is tangible.
Jenny Beth Martin (04:46):
It is something that had never been done before. Our founders,
Craig Shirley (04:49):
It's interesting you mentioned the patent office during the war of 1812, when the British burned all of Washington, they burned the capitol, they burned the White House, they burned all the federal buildings. They burned many residential buildings. The one building that didn't burn was the patent office. Wow. They wanted the ideas, right? They wanted the ideas to take them back to England.
Jenny Beth Martin (05:11):
And the interesting thing about the way our patent system works is that in order to protect that property and to have the exclusive right to it, the way that we do that is we say, you have to show it to the whole world. You have to tell your idea to the whole entire world and display it for everybody, but in a change for letting everyone see that so they can develop and innovate on top of it. You get to own it exclusively.
Craig Shirley (05:33):
But there's one underlying principle which guides invention. The profit motive,
Jenny Beth Martin (05:41):
Right?
Craig Shirley (05:41):
Right. That's right. Is that if you don't get profit, why bother? That's right. This is why the Soviet Union lagged behind us in terms of everything, because they didn't have a profit motive. If you have a profit motive, you have creativity, you have ingenuity, you have inventions, you have progress. Well,
Jenny Beth Martin (05:57):
And that's where the exclusive, right? That's why we have a free market is so important. And the exclusive right with the patents is so important because then you can rent it, you can sell it, you can lease it, you can license
Craig Shirley (06:05):
It,
Jenny Beth Martin (06:06):
You can license it, you can do, however, you can use it exclusively for yourself if you choose. But then you're able to recoup your costs and keep inventing, and it's so very important. Yes, absolutely. It's something that it
Craig Shirley (06:23):
Distinguishes us from the world up until recently where some inventions are emerging now from China and from Europe, things like that. But for 200 years plus, we led the world because we had a better economic model system, and we had a system that rewarded individual achievement and individual enterprise better than any other country in the world.
Jenny Beth Martin (06:52):
And we have to get back
Craig Shirley (06:54):
To being
Jenny Beth Martin (06:55):
That kind of
Craig Shirley (06:55):
Country. Absolutely.
Jenny Beth Martin (06:58):
Your recent, well, you've got so many books from Reagan, the last act, this is after he left office,
Craig Shirley (07:08):
Correct? Yeah. It's about his years afterward. A lot of people buy into the short line of reasoning or line of history. The Reagan left the White House, came down with Alzheimer's and then died. Well, that's not true. There was a lot living in those many years between He left the White House, he left the White House in 89, and he didn't die until 25 years later. And the Alzheimer's wasn't discovered until seven years after he left the White House. And that's what this is mostly about, is about those seven years after he left the White House about his important speeches, about his travels, about his initiatives, about the Reagan library, about he was knighted by the Queen of England and received high decorations from France, and he packed a lot of living into one lifetime and packed a lot of living into those seven years.
Jenny Beth Martin (08:07):
And in those seven years,
Craig Shirley (08:09):
And it's interesting too, is that he was constantly pilled by the left. If you look at here, is that some of the attacks on him, some of the vicious, mean, terrible attacks on him by the American left, that he was dumb. He was old. He was mean. He was a doddering old grandfather. He was an indulgent, I mean, just mean spirited stuff from supposedly educated people, not just from guys on the street. They all loved Reagan. It was the smart intellects, the sooner intellectuals. They're the ones who all viciously attacked Reagan
Jenny Beth Martin (08:52):
In these seven years before he Alzheimer's. And he went into, truly into the sunset years of his life, the wall came down, Soviet Union collapsed. He saw the fruit of his labor.
Craig Shirley (09:04):
Yes, he did. He was able to see, absolutely. Yeah.
Jenny Beth Martin (09:08):
And he wound up giving, didn't he give Macau Gorbachev a medal or something? He
Craig Shirley (09:13):
Got a medal from the Soviet Union. But what is interesting is that he went to the Soviet Union to give a speech, and there's a great famous picture of him. He's talking to students from the University of Moscow, and there's a famous picture of him underneath the bust of Lenin. Right. Wow. And he's telling the student, she says, yeah, he was no good either. And like, yay, they're applauding an American president and they're booing a Soviet premier. That's how things change, how quickly things change in Soviet Union, the rejection of socialism
Jenny Beth Martin (09:49):
And how quickly things can change right now, things I think today to so many people looking around at what's happening in the world today. You see the weaponization of government against President Trump and against his allies and the hyper political environment that we are in, and a very stagnant economy. And the world seems on the brink of World War. You've got Russia in Ukraine, you've got Iran and Hamas against Israel. China is flirting. I don't know that flirting is the right world,
Craig Shirley (10:23):
But they say they, they're building supercars in China Sea. Yeah, they're building
Jenny Beth Martin (10:28):
Official islands
Craig Shirley (10:28):
In the South China
Jenny Beth Martin (10:29):
Sea. They're sending very clear
Craig Shirley (10:30):
Signals. They're making threats against Taiwan.
Jenny Beth Martin (10:33):
Absolutely. They're making these threats. And so all of these things are happening. And then you have a president in the office right now who's worried about gas appliances and worried, it's almost like tennis courts or something, and worried,
Craig Shirley (10:52):
I'm sorry to interrupt you, but that's partially the screw tape letters by CS Lewis, where the devil is teaching his protege about how to be evil. And one of the things he teaches them said is to keep people's attention on what's not important. So if a guy's house is burning down, burning down, hand 'em a garden hose, if a guy's, it is like teachers, like the teachers union say, boy, you're doing a lousy job. And the teachers, what do they say? Well, I need more money. They always say, we need more money. We need more books. We need more this. We need more schools. They always never answer for the lousy SAT scores or lousy crime in schools or teachers getting beat up or public schools in America are atrocious, which is explains the growth of private schools and parochial schools and
Jenny Beth Martin (11:45):
Homeschooling
Craig Shirley (11:48):
Biden, going after air conditioning and going after electric cars and all this other stuff is to keep people's attention focused and what's not important.
Jenny Beth Martin (12:00):
Well, it keeps it on what's not important, but it's important in their day-to-day life, like being able to cool your house, being able to cook
Craig Shirley (12:06):
To the extent they can control people. Sure. Right?
Jenny Beth Martin (12:09):
Yes. But I mean the individual, it distracts the individual, but those things are important to quality of life of the individual,
Craig Shirley (12:16):
Right? Yeah, they are.
Jenny Beth Martin (12:17):
So then they focus on that. But all of these other things are going on right now, and it's very easy to just think We're never going to be able to right this wrong. And I think that's why looking back at what happened with Reagan and how quickly things changed, I mean, he took down the Soviet Union in eight years and 10 years arguably,
Craig Shirley (12:40):
Well, he restored American morale. That was important. That was the important one, is that without the restoration of the American morale, nothing else happens. Nothing else happens is that there's no prosperity, there's no growth, there's no hope, there's no future.
Jenny Beth Martin (12:54):
The optimism was truly
Craig Shirley (12:56):
Important part of his ideology. Right.
Jenny Beth Martin (13:00):
And why is that so important right now for people who feel discouraged? And there are a lot of people who are coming into politics today who have come into politics today because they saw what happened in the election in 2020 and feel like they were wronged, and they just feel like the whole world is on fire right now. How is that message of
Craig Shirley (13:25):
Optimism important? I would boil,
Jenny Beth Martin (13:26):
The world is kind of on fire right now.
Craig Shirley (13:28):
Jenny Beth, I would boil it down probably overly simplistically, but I boil it down to the eternal argument of where power resides. Does it reside with a few elites, the few corrupt elites, or does it reside with the many people? You, and I would say it resides with the many people, but it hasn't always been that way. Right now it's with the corrupt leads and what motivates them. Power. Power. That is the ends and the means is that you say, well, I remember from the book 1984 where Winston Smith is room 1 0 1 and having the crap kicked out of him by O'Brien. And O'Brien says, why does the state desire power? And Winston Smith says, well, to help better the plight of the people and help them become better people. And O'Brien starts kicking the shit out. No, no, no. That was stupid Smith. Why?
Craig Shirley (14:27):
And he finally answered, says, because the state desires power. Yes, that's a correct answer. Not to help people, not to make a better world and make a better society's, simply to have power for power for power's sake. And you go back to Pius Pilate versus Jesus Christ up through the dark ages, up to the American Revolution. It's the eternal argument of where does power reside. And so we're seeing that happen again today between, and it's really crystallized between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Joe Biden is the epitome of the corrupt elites this election. I think Trump has kind of stumbled on the truth. Trump is not intellectual, but he is instinctual. He's got the best instincts I've seen in politics in many, many years is that he knows this is an important election. Is it the most important election? No, but I would say it's one of the three most important elections we've had in 250 years, 1828, John Quincy Adams versus Andrew Jackson. Andrew Jackson represents the populace, the elites, the anti corrupt government, non-corrupt establishment, 1980, Ronald Reagan, the populist reformer, a conservative reform against the corrupt elitist Jimmy Carter, and this election 2024, with again, Biden, the corrupt elitist versus Donald Trump, the reform populist. I think you made a mistake last time. He didn't go enough after spending and after corruption. I hope he puts that at top of his agenda this time. I
Jenny Beth Martin (16:02):
Don't see how he could not, I mean, especially the corruption, because the corruption has been used so
Craig Shirley (16:08):
It's so widespread. It's
Jenny Beth Martin (16:09):
So widespread. And he's facing personal consequences because of the corruption.
Craig Shirley (16:16):
I saw a lot of corruption over the years. I mean, really terrible things. I think my revulsion came, and I think it was 1990, it was just after Republicans took over Congress, 95 96, before Bob Dole was nominated, he was the Senate majority leader, and I was representing the cable industry and the cable industry, new broadcast spectrum had been invented over and above the current broadcasting spectrum to include, now you fellas probably know, but it was a new broadcast spectrum anyway, over and above what the networks were using. Cable uses, cable goes on TV polls, right. Broadcast spectrum uses the airwaves and
Jenny Beth Martin (17:06):
UHF and
Craig Shirley (17:06):
Vhf. Exactly. And airwaves belong to us, the American people. And so this new spectrum is up before Congress, what to do with it. And we were lobbying Congress, well put it up for auction, make A, B, CNBC and CBS pay for it. Don't just give it to them because this could generate billions of dollars for the US government that belongs to the American people. And it was interesting. I got nowhere. I got nowhere. Everybody was so scared of the broadcast industry. The only two members of Congress that could get to stand up to the corrupt broadcasters, Bob Dole, who really, I was proud of Dole. I was part of Bob that, I mean, I remember seeing Lay into the National Association of Broadcasters was then headed by a guy named Eddie Fritz. Right. He was the head of NAB, and his college roommate had been Trent Lott. Oh, yeah. So it was very convenient to, and Trent Lott was nice guy, but he was as dirty as they come. Yeah. It was not a very clean politician. But anyway, and Barney Frank was the other one, was the only other member of Congress I could get to stand up to the broadcast. So the A-B-C-N-B-C and CBS were given billions of dollars of new broadcast spectrum and didn't pay a dime for it. Didn't pay a dime.
Jenny Beth Martin (18:28):
Corrupt.
Craig Shirley (18:29):
Yeah, corrupt total.
Jenny Beth Martin (18:32):
And I do hope that Trump gets in there and cleans that out. If he is
Craig Shirley (18:37):
Your lips to God's ears
Jenny Beth Martin (18:39):
Reelected, you also have a book on his greatest speeches.
Craig Shirley (18:42):
Right? Yeah. That was fun to write.
Jenny Beth Martin (18:43):
Why was it fun to write?
Craig Shirley (18:45):
Because it was overlooked to the fact that the Trump was actually a good phrase maker and a good speechmaker. He gave some good speeches. Mount Rushmore speech I remember was very, very good. That's in there. I think we selected, we went through about Zaina and I went through about 50 of Trump's speeches, and we came up with about 20, about 20 that we thought were exceptional speeches.
Jenny Beth Martin (19:15):
He really gives good speeches.
Craig Shirley (19:16):
Yes, he does. He doesn't stick to the teleprompter very often, but when he still gives good speeches.
Jenny Beth Martin (19:27):
Well, and I think that he doesn't stick to the teleprompter.
Craig Shirley (19:31):
You don't have to. He's
Jenny Beth Martin (19:32):
Good. He has his own brain, and he wants to be able to inject not just what is written, but what he's thinking at the time.
Craig Shirley (19:40):
The proof is in the pudding. Look at, I mean, he's got millions of followers.
Jenny Beth Martin (19:44):
He does. Yeah, he does. And then you have also written about
Craig Shirley (19:55):
George Washington's mother.
Jenny Beth Martin (19:57):
That would be an interesting book. I haven't read this one.
Craig Shirley (20:00):
I'll give you a copy before you go. I'll give you a copy.
Jenny Beth Martin (20:03):
Okay.
Craig Shirley (20:06):
I have several favorite presidents, obviously Ronald Reagan, George Washington was also a favorite president of mine. As you look at the decorations of our house, and I want to do a book about Washington, but pretty much every, it had been written about his boyhood and his post presidency, and he'd been written about many different ways. So I was trying to figure out a way to get to Washington. And then I realized that nobody ever wrote a book about George Washington's mother, who is arguably the most important woman in America in history, because without Washington, there's no American revolution without Washington, there's no American republic without Washington. There's no Washington DC without, I mean, he truly is the father of our country because he is the president. He is the instigator of so many things.
Jenny Beth Martin (21:00):
And he said the precedent, he was the president and not king.
Craig Shirley (21:03):
Absolutely. He said, so many precedents for the presidency. And so I realized that nobody ever did a book about his mother. And I came to his mother. Mary has gotten a bad rap from history. Mary, even Ron Chernow, in his great book about Washington, he wrote, Ron Chernow wrote a terrific book, but he wrote that Mary was mean and nasty and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She wasn't, my research says she was tough, but she had to be tough. She was a single mother raising five children. Right. In colonial America. She didn't even have the right to own property. We know she didn't have the right to vote, but women then theoretically at least, couldn't own property. They had to deed it to their oldest son if their husband died. And her husband Augustine dies, and she inherits ferry farm and some plantations and things like this, and she's supposed to give it over to George. Well, one of them became bone of contention because she wouldn't give it over to George. So it became a bone of contention for many years. But she was, they say the old adage, right? The hand that rocks the cradle. She was the hand that rocked the cradle.
Jenny Beth Martin (22:14):
And you have to be a tough
Craig Shirley (22:17):
Absolutely.
Jenny Beth Martin (22:17):
Especially if you, you're a single mom. I mean, it's hard enough being a single mom today. Imagine
Craig Shirley (22:23):
Today. That's why I wanted this book to resonate with women today like yourself. Right. Because think of it in her times in Colonial America, is that she's raising, well, the were six, but Abigail died in early age, so there were five. And she's raising them in colonial America where there are so many limitations on a woman's ability to own property, to vote. Women didn't speak out, didn't write letters or write newspapers or things like that. They were hemmed in. They were expected to behave a certain way and not, not step out of those race lanes.
Jenny Beth Martin (23:05):
And how old was George Washington when his father died? Do you remember?
Craig Shirley (23:15):
1112.
Jenny Beth Martin (23:15):
And so she had to be responsible for the entire estate,
Craig Shirley (23:18):
Everything. Yeah, everything. So
Jenny Beth Martin (23:19):
She didn't everything she had to give it to him, but she also had the respons responsibility of maintaining and protecting.
Craig Shirley (23:27):
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. She was supervising the crop rotation, supervising slaves and supervising the planting of right vegetables and the right tobacco and the right things like this. And her house in Fredericksburg. She had a tough life. She had a tough life, but she was very capable. She lived to be 93, 83, 83 until she died of breast cancer. Which is interesting because over here in Lively, there was a woman with last name of ball. Now she was a direct descendant. She was right down the lineage from Mary Ball Washington, right down through generation after generation. She died of breast cancer. So that terrible, awful killer disease followed the bald women right down through generation after generation after generation.
Jenny Beth Martin (24:17):
Wow.
Craig Shirley (24:17):
Yeah,
Jenny Beth Martin (24:19):
That is, that's terrible,
Craig Shirley (24:22):
Actually. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. But Mary Ball, I almost say she died a happy woman. Nobody dies. Happy. But she was well accomplished. She was very proud of her son. She didn't show it at the time. She was domineering somewhat. She was demanding somewhat, but she had to be get by to get by in that tough world. But she was very proud of him. He used to come and visit her all the time. He would ride his horse down from Mount Vernon down here to Fredericksburg. There's usually days travel by horse. And he would come down, check up on her very frequently, at least once a month. And the last time was as president. And she took him in hand, and basically she was dying. She was dying. But she told him how proud she was and how happy she had him, that he was her son. So at the very last, he gets the final blessing. He needs to get his mother's blessing, right?
Jenny Beth Martin (25:20):
Yeah. And when that's really the only parent he knew at that. I mean, 11, I'm sure you remembered his
Craig Shirley (25:27):
Father, but No, because his Lawrence, who is his stepbrother, was his surrogate father. Wow. Lawrence, who owned Mount Vernon, who named Mount Vernon after a British military commander. He worked for, and then sold the property to George, who then made it his own. But Lawrence, who died at a young age too, was his surrogate father. He really looked up to, he was a very well accomplished individual. He was very well accomplished. She was military leader and officer, and was well thought of.
Jenny Beth Martin (26:05):
That's good. Yeah. And then you also wrote one on new. I first started volunteering in 1992, and I was in New Gingrich's district, so I volunteered
Craig Shirley (26:20):
Carrollton.
Jenny Beth Martin (26:21):
Well, it was in Marietta, so I was in Marietta at that time, and I wound up volunteering on Bob Barr's campaign. I reached out to N'S campaign, and they were like, we didn't go help over next door. And you even say he's a Reagan conservative. Yes,
Craig Shirley (26:43):
Yes. Very much
Jenny Beth Martin (26:43):
So. How is that?
Craig Shirley (26:45):
He started out as a liberal Republican. He was a Nelson Rockefeller booster. He was a Gerald Ford booster. Goodness. It was only after Reagan went into Georgia to campaign for Newt in 1978, where Newt actually started becoming, because he was a tree hugger. He was a college professor. He was very, very, I wouldn't say he was leftist, but he was very, very squishy, kind of a rhino Republican. It was only after Reagan, he started studying. And only after a Reagan campaign for that, he really started to turn into a Reagan conservative. By the time he was elected the house in 1978, he was a firebrand. He was terrific. He was on fire. He was four square on tax cuts, four square on national defense, four square on pro-life. He was right down the line, a Reagan man. And this book is about a lot of the coordination between him as he was rising through the ranks, up to speaker and the Reagan White House.
Jenny Beth Martin (27:46):
And does this but cover his speakership as
Craig Shirley (27:48):
Well? No, it ends with him becoming speaker. Okay. It ends. That's the ultimate. Yeah. It charges his growth from the time of being a college professor at West Georgia State up to the night he becomes speaker.
Jenny Beth Martin (28:04):
Well, now you have to write another book.
Craig Shirley (28:06):
Well, I've been thinking about that. I don't,
Jenny Beth Martin (28:12):
These are not enough.
Craig Shirley (28:13):
Well,
Jenny Beth Martin (28:14):
And
Craig Shirley (28:14):
This I have a legal tablet. Yes. Yeah. I have a legal tablet with right now, there's about 26 books I want to write, which means one thing I'm going to expire long before the list does.
Jenny Beth Martin (28:27):
Right? Yes. One thing that I, so I knew and have known Newt from when he became speaker. I mean, I met him before he was speaker. I saw him, and I wouldn't say I'm best friends or even friends with him, but I know him. I was his constituent while speaker.
Craig Shirley (28:47):
He doesn't friends. He doesn't have best friends.
Jenny Beth Martin (28:48):
Well, good then. See, I don't have to feel bad, but don't feel bad. Anyway,
Craig Shirley (28:51):
He has friends.
Jenny Beth Martin (28:52):
Yeah, he has
Craig Shirley (28:53):
Friends. But I respect him for it. He's very guarded about things. He doesn't show his emotions too much. I won't say he keeps him felt, because he and Calista are like this. He loves Calista very, very much. He likes his friends. I just got an email from this morning. He's asking me all the time about this Reagan question, or that Reagan question, the mere question about American history. So we correspond frequently, but I would never say he's a close friend. I would say he's a very good person. He's a very good person.
Jenny Beth Martin (29:29):
I think that he used the Office of Speaker. Well, he did. He used the Office of Speaker in a way. I haven't seen any other Republican speaker use it. No. And I'm talking about not just what he did in the official capacity, but when you step back and you look at what he was doing with GOP Pack, and he was a college professor.
Craig Shirley (29:52):
Yes, I'm fire.
Jenny Beth Martin (29:54):
And when you would go to a speech or when you would ask him a question in a gathering, he talked to you and he explained it to you like a professor would. And I don't mean that he was all intellectual
Craig Shirley (30:05):
Hybrid, but
Jenny Beth Martin (30:05):
He couldn't break it down so you understand what it was going
Craig Shirley (30:08):
On. He would blow off anybody. He would answer anybody's questions
Jenny Beth Martin (30:11):
He had. And in his campaign office, which was open 24 7, not on the Sunday nights, I'm sure, but it was open and there were events. I learned how to write letters to the editor. They would go in and train people constantly. He
Craig Shirley (30:28):
Was very grassrootsy. He was always grassrootsy. Yes.
Jenny Beth Martin (30:32):
And so I learned so much from him and the people who he employed on the campaign side. And I paid attention to the official side. But I was closer to the campaign side. And I've talked to him as the Tea Party movement began and over the years, and he's always answered my questions. And he's someone who I've learned a lot from.
Craig Shirley (30:56):
You think about his place in history, we all talk about, oh, new this, new that, blah, blah, blah. When you think about what American politician has had the longevity of him, he's been on the national scene since the 1970s. So that's 50 years, right? Is that Nixon? Okay. 48 to the seventies. Okay. So that would be 50 years. But he was the president of the United States. Right. Think of a politician who was not a president of the United States, who's had longevity of Newt Gingrich, the font of new ideas all the time. Henry Clay, 20, 30 years. But who else beyond that? Who else beyond that? Not Alexander Hamilton. He was a bad shot and got killed in a dual. He was only on the national scene for 20 years from the time of the American Revolution till his dual, what was it? 18 0 2, 18 0 3 with Aaron Burr. So you're hard pressed to think of an American politician who's had the staying power that nude Gingrich has had. He has taken it, I mean, the bumps and bruises and hits he's taken over the years. And he's like a Timex watch. He takes a lick and he keeps on ticking. Right,
Jenny Beth Martin (32:18):
Right. For the Energizer Bunny.
Craig Shirley (32:20):
Yeah. Energizer Bunny going and going. Keeps going.
Jenny Beth Martin (32:23):
Yeah. So you have the latest book on Reagan, the search for Reagan. What is this one about? And it just came out this year.
Craig Shirley (32:33):
Yes, it did. Yeah. It just came out a couple months ago. It two things, Jenny Beth. It is first of all, his exploration of Ronald Reagan's intellect and his compassion, both of which were considerable. His old aide, Marty Anderson, was a good friend of mine. He's since passed away. He once told me that he estimated, now Marty had PhDs coming out of his ears. He went to Dartmouth, he went to MIT, he went to Harvard. He had all sorts of, I mean, he knew an intellect when he saw one. Right. He was an intellect. And he told me one time he estimated Reagan's IQ as being 170, but also his compassion, which was considerable, his compassion for men dying of aids and how much the untold billions, he had the federal government spend on research and his compassion for Japanese Americans who had been interred during World War II unfairly.
Craig Shirley (33:34):
And his drive to get them reparations. And so deals with a lot of that. But it also is a refutation. It's a corrective against many of the liberal lies that have been hurled against Ronald Reagan over the years. So it's for two reasons. One is one to explore his intellect, and the other is to correct the record. So that's why I wrote, now you've written books and articles, and so you always think to yourself, whenever you write a book, you think, oh, I should have included that. Why not include that? You always kicking yourself. Right. And with this one, I wish I included chapter on Reagan and homeless, because Reagan has been the subject to so many lies about homeless crisis in America and several other subjects that people lied about. Reagan and the welfare Queen, he's been lied about that many, many times. So those are two subjects I wish I had addressed. But fortunately, my friend Paul Kor, who's also very, very finest story, and he is also written a number of Reagan books. He's got a book coming out about Reagan and race. So he's going to deal with the issue of the welfare queens and set that to set correct the record, hopefully once and for all.
Jenny Beth Martin (34:48):
I hope that it does. When my children were studying, you talked about the public schools being messed up when they were learning about Reagan in high school. They came home saying that their books said that Reagan was a racist, and it said the tea party was racist. So my children understood that this couldn't, they knew I wasn't racist. Right, of course. That they weren't
Craig Shirley (35:09):
Racist. Of course. Yeah, that's right.
Jenny Beth Martin (35:12):
So they knew that that wasn't right. But it's so frustrating to know that that's, it's
Craig Shirley (35:15):
Very scary. Well, two points about that, lemme interrupt for a sec. Is that because American public schools are failing and failing teaching history, is that people like me have become American. I don't mean I don't want to blow sunshine up, blow sunshine where it doesn't belong, but we're now America School teachers because nobody else is teaching American history. That's number one. Number two was that David McCullough, who was a great historian, his last book was on the Wright Brothers. As a matter of fact. He once said that we are now in our third generation of historically illiterate Americans, is that how many Americans know about the Revolution or the Civil War or the Pearl Harbor or about the Cold War? They don't. What are they taught woke him And Republicans are racist. I mean, that's what they know. We have four children. Two are sane and rational, and two are insane leftists. And the leftists were victims of public schools. And it's very frustrating.
Jenny Beth Martin (36:19):
It's frustrating. It is truly frustrating. And there's a lot of work to do to do with that. But it's good that you are writing and doing. No one can look at these books and go, oh, well, this is not well researched. These very well researched books. Thank you. You're making sure that you, you're not just making the case, but you're backing up the case that you've made. Yes,
Craig Shirley (36:45):
Yes. It's strange too, because most historians are leftists, right. Doris Kearns Goodwin, John Meam, Michael Belos, Doug Brinkley is that there are very few conservative historians. Really? Paul Johnson, Paul Kor, who I mentioned myself. I mean, our lane is pretty wide because there's so few people in it.
Jenny Beth Martin (37:12):
Right. We need more.
Craig Shirley (37:14):
Yes. We need more. We need more. A guy at the Reagan Institute said to me the other day, he says, we need younger Craig. And I said, Bravo here. Here. I shouldn't be looked at as the end all and be all. There should be a thousand people like me writing the correct history. Nobody's ever written history about how the American Revolution was really a religious war and to throw off the Church of England. That is a great book. And nobody's ever written
Jenny Beth Martin (37:43):
It said on your list of 26. Yes, yes, of course it is. So you've written so much about Reagan
Craig Shirley (37:55):
Six books. Yeah, a lot of articles too. But nobody's counting. How
Jenny Beth Martin (38:00):
Do you summarize Why was Reagan so important and how do you tell someone like my kids who weren't taught what they needed to be taught, why was Reagan important?
Craig Shirley (38:12):
Why he was important? Because he unleashed an intellectual revolution in America whose effects were felt for many years. There's a theory of history, which is called the sunburst theory. You think of the time back in Vienna with all those marvelous composers with Schubert, Mozart, Brahms, and Bach, all coming to fruition all in the same time period. And then you go back to Philadelphia in 1760s, 70 seventies, and all of these great intellects meeting to craft the declaration, meeting craft, the constitution, debating, arguing for hours, Franklin and Madison and Locke, not Locke and so many others, right? I mean, these are brilliant men. Again, it was the sunburst theory of history. And then you go back 200 years later to the 1970s when the conservative revolutions taking hold, beginning and coming up with answers to the failures of American leftism. We're coming up with ideas on a daily basis, not just tax cuts, enterprise zones, and so many other initiatives that would empower the individual, that would empower the locality, that would take power away from the state and do so creatively and help truly help the citizen.
Craig Shirley (39:35):
And this all comes to fruition under Ronald Reagan. And so by the time of his presidency, he's got seven, eight years of conservative ideas and thoughts behind him pushing him forward, which is he comes in and even the Washington Post said, thank God, one reason we can thank God for the Reagan campaign is unleashed a new intellectual revolution in America. And that's almost a direct quote from the Washington Post saying that Ronald Reagan unleashed an intellectual revolution in America. And he did. He did. Who thought about aiding really aiding indigenous freedom fighters throughout the world to push back on the Soviets, who thought about SDI, who thought about enterprise zones, who thought about tax cuts, who thought about all these other initiatives that were designed to take power away from the state and give it back to the individual. And it was all done creatively, and it was all done because of the American conservative movement and the movement led by Ronald Reagan.
Jenny Beth Martin (40:42):
Craig Shirley, thank you so much for your time
Craig Shirley (40:44):
Today. Thank you so much. Thank you. It was fun.
Jenny Beth Martin (40:48):
I enjoyed it very
Craig Shirley (40:49):
Much. So did I. Thank you.
Narrator (40:51):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Mohan and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.
Jenny Beth Martin (41:10):
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