In this episode of The Jenny Beth Show, NY Times Best Selling author and historian Craig Shirley dives deep into the legacy of Ronald Reagan, offering listeners a rich perspective on the 1976 and 1980 campaigns that shaped Reagan's presidency. Shirley, a renowned Reagan scholar, shares personal anecdotes from his time working on Reagan's campaigns and discusses the pivotal moments that defined the conservative movement in America. He emphasizes how Reagan revitalized the American spirit, transforming the Republican Party into a forward-looking political force that embraced individual freedom and small government. Shirley also explores Reagan's significant achievements, including his efforts to defeat the Soviet Union, restore American morale, and implement supply-side economics. He highlights Reagan’s belief in transferring power back to the individual, which played a key role in his economic policies that created millions of jobs and shrank the size of government. Through Shirley's expert analysis, this episode provides a detailed look at how Reagan's leadership reshaped not only the GOP but also America's global standing during a critical time in history.
In this episode of The Jenny Beth Show, NY Times Best Selling author and historian Craig Shirley dives deep into the legacy of Ronald Reagan, offering listeners a rich perspective on the 1976 and 1980 campaigns that shaped Reagan's presidency. Shirley, a renowned Reagan scholar, shares personal anecdotes from his time working on Reagan's campaigns and discusses the pivotal moments that defined the conservative movement in America. He emphasizes how Reagan revitalized the American spirit, transforming the Republican Party into a forward-looking political force that embraced individual freedom and small government.
Shirley also explores Reagan's significant achievements, including his efforts to defeat the Soviet Union, restore American morale, and implement supply-side economics. He highlights Reagan’s belief in transferring power back to the individual, which played a key role in his economic policies that created millions of jobs and shrank the size of government. Through Shirley's expert analysis, this episode provides a detailed look at how Reagan's leadership reshaped not only the GOP but also America's global standing during a critical time in history.
Twitter/X: @CraigSmpa | @jennybethm
Craig Shirley (00:00):
Government failed to cure inflation. Government failed to cure high taxes. Government failed at many different levels through the 1960s and seventies. And so there has to be an answer to that. The answer is the individual, not government, and that Reagan came along at the right moment and the right time to convey his message.
Narrator (00:23):
Keeping our republic is on the line, and it requires Patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author of filmmaker and one of time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she's most proud of is Mom To Her Boy, girl Twins, she has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:55):
What does it take to become a leading authority on Ronald Reagan, one of America's most iconic presidents? Today we dive into the life and insights of Craig Shirley, a New York Times bestselling author who has not only written six books on Reagan, but also served as the historical advisor for the new Reagan movie from his early days canvassing for Barry Goldwater to becoming a bestselling author and a trusted Reagan scholar. Craig's story is one of dedication and passion for American conservatism. In this first part of our two-part series, Craig shares his unique perspective on Ronald Reagan's 1976 campaign. The pivotal moments that defined Reagan's political career and the impact of his policies on America's future will uncover how Craig transitioned from a political operative to a revered author. Stay tuned for an enlightening conversation with Craig Shirley that offers a blend of his historical insight and personal anecdotes providing a deeper understanding of the President who revitalized the American Spirit.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:59):
Craig Shirley, thank you so much for joining our podcast. Thank you. And for having me at your lovely, beautiful
Craig Shirley (02:04):
Home. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Jenny Beth Martin (02:06):
You have written so many books. It's the stack. If I hold it all up, it would be very tall, feet tall. You've written six books on Ronald Reagan, right? Yes. And you were or are a historical advisor to the new Reagan movie that's coming out.
Craig Shirley (02:23):
Yes. Yes.
Jenny Beth Martin (02:24):
Why did you decide to research Reagan and become so well versed in his history?
Craig Shirley (02:31):
History? My parents were charter members of the New York State Conservative Party. They were delegates to the state convention every two years, and they were with the Buckleys and Mike Valerio, a lot of people like that. They were very active in the early days of the conservative movement, and they got my brother and me involved. And so we went door to door for very Goldwater, and we went door todo for Richard Nixon with brochures and got a lot of doors slammed in our face. But conservatism has always been in my blood. I worked on the 76 campaign. I worked on the 80 Reagan campaign where I first met my wife, Rene, 40 some years ago. I remember very distinctly after the 64 campaign, my father came home with a record album. The title of the record album was Rendezvous with Destiny. It was Reagan's speech for Barry Goldwater, and he, me and my brother, and meet, sit down and listen to it.
Craig Shirley (03:27):
And after listening to it was long, playing 33, a third long playing record album. And afterwards, I remember my father exclaimed this man, Reagan himself should be president. He was pretty prescient in 1964. So I'd always been a follower of Ronald Reagan. I always studied Ronald Reagan. I always read newspaper articles about Ronald Reagan magazine articles. And so this one thing led to another. I worked on the 80 campaign, then I worked for the Republican National Committee, which was the political arm of the Reagan White House. I worked for the White House Conference on a small business. Then I worked on the 84 campaign, and then I started my own firm, and a lot of my clients were clients that I worked on in conjunction with the Reagan White House, Nicaraguan Contras were a client, the Afghan Muha Deans. I worked on SDI worked on the 86 Tax reform bill. So I was at the White House all the time working on strategy and all that.
Craig Shirley (04:29):
When I started my own company, one of my early clients was Thomas Nelson publishing Thomas Nelson. Remember the largest publisher of the Bible? They started a public affairs division called Nelson Current, and they hired my firm to do all the marketing for Nelson Current and the president of the company who has now passed away. Unfortunately, David Dunham had a standing order, and that was that we ever had a good idea for a book. We were supposed to call him and tell him. So I called him one day, I said, I got a good idea for a book. He said, tell me, what's that? I said, nobody has ever written a book about the 1976 Reagan campaign. Mrs. Reagan always said of Reagan's five national campaigns, it was the most exciting. And without 76 campaign, there is no 1980 campaign because it laid the foundation for him to run 1980, laid the ideological and personal foundation.
Craig Shirley (05:24):
He said, I love the idea. Go get me a rider. So I called all over Washington. I called George Will. I called Frank Donatelli. I called lots of writers and lots of political activists, and everybody had an excuse why they couldn't write it. They weren't interested in the subject. They were busy. Ya, ya, ya. So after about three weeks, I report the Sad News back to David and I said, David, I'm striking out on this idea for a writer for the 76 campaign book. And David said six little words that changed my life forever. He said, well, why don't you write it? I said, okay, I'll write it. Sure. I thought I'd entertain leading notions about writing steamy novels and stuff like that, but not nonfiction, not historical nonfiction. Although I was a history major in college, I studied history my whole life. I loved American history.
Craig Shirley (06:16):
So I said, okay, what do I do? He said, well, first you got to write a treatment. And I said, what's a treatment? Right? He laughed and he said, I'll send you some samples. You can use templates. So I got the templates, he got the samples, and I sent 'em back a template. Three weeks later, two weeks later, and within a matter of days, I got a contract and a very large check in advance. The good news is I got a contract in a very large advance. The bad news is I got a contract in a very large advance. Now I got to write the darn right. So I signed the contract, deposited the check, and just set about gaining as much knowledge as I could about the 76 campaign. I interviewed everybody who's still alive. I interviewed many of the Reagan children. I interviewed a lot of the Bush children.
Craig Shirley (07:07):
I interviewed Howard Baker, I interviewed his Sissy Baker. I interviewed so many people who were still alive. And when I started writing this 20 years ago that I interviewed. And so after fashion, I came up with a book and it ended up being on the Washington Post bestsellers list. And they were very happy. It sold very well. I was very happy. I had something in my hand to show something for my life. I mean, I had a lot of things in my, don't get me wrong, because I coached and I built a business and built a family. But writing a book is different. Is different. You're exactly right. You're exactly right. Something tangible to prove. You have intellect, not just a diploma, hang on a wall, but actually something you can say, I did this. I'm proud of this accomplishment. So I wrote the book.
Craig Shirley (08:02):
It came out, met good reviews, and a couple months later I got a president from the a call from the president of ISI publishers. He says, I love Ronald Reagan's revolution, but the story's incomplete. I said, yeah, I know. He said, well, we want you to write the book on the 1980 campaign. So again, they sent me a contract and a very large check. And again, I set out gaining as much knowledge as I could. I mean, I interviewed everybody and I've dug into presidential libraries at the Reagan Library and the Ford Library and all these other locations, national Archives, and the Library of Congress. By the way, I have to say my book on the 76 campaign. I had a little trouble initially with the Reagan library. So I complained about it one day to an old Reagan speech writer, Peter Hannaford and behold, Mrs. Reagan called Reagan Library and she says, you give Craig Shirley all the cooperation he wants, whatever he wants, you give it to him. I know he is going to write a good book for Ronnie. So I did, and she was my best friend after that.
Jenny Beth Martin (09:11):
Right?
Craig Shirley (09:12):
So I wrote the book on the 80 campaign, and the nice thing was was that really it is the definitive story of the 1980 campaign. Nobody's ever written anything close to it, and I hope nobody ever will.
Jenny Beth Martin (09:25):
The Reagan's Revolution, the first one you wrote, you were saying that this one was so important, informative to how he became who he was, and Mrs. Reagan thought it was such an important time. Elaborate on that. Tell us more about that period.
Craig Shirley (09:42):
It was a very dark period for the Republican Party in 1973 and 74. The country was in the depths of Watergate. Nixon was about to resign. Agno Agnew has already resigned. And by the way, Spiro Agnew was the front runner for 1976. Not Ronald Reagan, Spiro Agnew, absent his corruption and pleading Nolo contender in resigning, the vice presidency would've been nominated by the Republican Party in 76. But that changes everything for Reagan. And then Nixon resignation. Also, a path is clear to the wilderness for Ronald Reagan, who previously wasn't really thinking about running for president until 74, 75, when it becomes clear that the nomination is now wide open because Gerald Ford is challenged. Okay? He's a non-incumbent appointed president. He's never asked anybody in the country for his vote, except outside of one congressional district in Michigan. So nobody has anything invested in Gerald Ford. So now that it's open, and Reagan comes out of 2,259 Delegate votes cast in Kansas City in August 76, Reagan comes within 69 delegate votes of beating the incumbent only because of hijinks in the Ohio, Mississippi and New Jersey delegations is Reagan denied winning the nomination in 76.
Craig Shirley (11:10):
Now, a lot of people say it was good because Reagan in 80 was a better, stronger, more prepared candidate than 76. I'm not necessarily sure I by that, because if you look at his him in 76, I mean, he was on fire, his speeches, he was at the top of his game, and who's to say that he wouldn't have become president and still been able to persuade a conservative democratic Congress to follow him on a lot of legislation. Now, on the other side of the equation, I will tell you is that Reagan 76 was not a fully formed conservative really. He had the national defense, he had the family arguments, pro-life arguments a little bit. He didn't have the tax cutting arguments at all. He didn't have the anti, he had somewhat the anti-Soviet argument, but he was incomplete. His issue cluster was incomplete. So the issue cluster was complete in 1980. The one that Donald Trump runs on today is the one Ronald Reagan introduced to the party in 19 19 80.
Jenny Beth Martin (12:11):
Okay, and when you say it wasn't complete, what is a complete picture of conservatism and a conservative?
Craig Shirley (12:20):
Conservative? Well, maximum, as Reagan said, 64, maximum freedom, consistent with law and order. I would say it's about number of words, individuality, privacy, dignity, life, extending for all human beings. I believe in supply side happiness, not just supply side economics is just to create a world where everybody can reach highest level of achievement without the heavy hand of government or nobility interfering is leaving people alone. I know I'm not articulating this well, but is that basically it comes down to the individual, the privacy and the rights of the individual, which is where American conservatism has been since the revolution. The revolution was really about throwing off the shackles of the British empire, throwing off the Church of England and allowing the individual to flourish.
Jenny Beth Martin (13:18):
That's right. That's right. And it, it's hard to imagine what it was like before that, because we've never experienced anything like that.
Craig Shirley (13:29):
No, but a different sort of way. Not like the British Empire
Jenny Beth Martin (13:36):
With Covid, we sure experienced a lot of heavy handed government.
Craig Shirley (13:39):
Oh yes, absolutely. Starting with a new deal on forward. Absolutely. But under the British crown, the Church of England, which is overlooked completely by historians, the Revolutionary War was as much a religious war as it was a war for personal freedom and independence war. The American colon, the Church of England was the political arm of the King of England. And the Church of England wasn't dominant in Massachusetts because that was pilgrims and those religious sects had already gotten there first. And it wasn't because William Penn had settled in Pennsylvania, but it was very prominent in the South, and they collected taxes. They me out punishment. Some clergymen who preached other faith other than Church of England were actually hung by the Church of England. They would physically punish people. It was very, very suppressive political arm of the British crown. So as much as the American Revolution was about all those other things, it was also a war American religious, which is why it's in the First Amendment, right? Right. Is that you will have no state religion because they had a state religion and it was awful.
Jenny Beth Martin (15:00):
Right? That's exactly right. Yeah. Okay, so he doesn't win. There are shenanigans, right? He learned a lot. And then he became a full fledged conservative. And what happened during the campaign season in 1979 and 1980,
Craig Shirley (15:21):
There were a lot of ups and downs. He almost lost a nomination because of tenderness to his own campaign. Reagan, when he was head, had a tendency to coast. It was only when he had to fight, did he become, his eyes would brighten up, his resolve would sharpen, his message would sharpen. And then he became really focused. And then after he lost the Iowa Coxes to George Bush in 1980, everybody was saying, it's over for Reagan. What Tom Pet of NBC said the night of the Iowa caucuses. Right. It's huge upset. I mean, George Bush beats Ronald Reagan, who was a local hero in Iowa. He broadcast from two different radio stations there, and he went to college just over the river in Illinois. And Tom Petit that night said, we have just witnessed the political funeral of Ronald Reagan. He said that, now today, there's only one week between the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primer.
Craig Shirley (16:27):
Yes, not enough time to recover. But in 1980, there were five weeks in between the Iowa Caucuses and the New Hampshire primer. So it gave Reagan time because he wasn't campaigning in Iowa the way he should have been. He was inattentive, and he lost. And the people of Iowa really resented it. They said, this is a vote. This is a strategic vote. We're voting against Reagan for ignoring us. So he went to New Hampshire and he just stayed there, and he just campaigned there every day. He campaigned there one day, he was campaigning morning to night every night, and the campaign bus, the press bus one night, they hung a sign in the bus that says, breathe the Reagan 44, because they were covering him, and they were exhausted from covering a man who was twice their age, driving them into the, because they were, he was so aggressive. And of course, that was the side of the famous debate. Now, a lot of people think, I'm paying for this microphone. Mr. Breen won the campaign for Reagan. He would've won anyway, but it did increase his margin. He won 53, 21 over George Bush, crushed him, reinstalled himself as the front runner for the 1980 nomination. But absent that debate, that scene of him yelling at the Nua Telegraph editor, right. Mr. Green, absent that,
Jenny Beth Martin (17:55):
Elaborate on that a little in case people like my daughter or son
Craig Shirley (17:59):
Don't know. Okay. Is that George Ronald Reagan had avoided all presidential debates before that, right? Because he had a campaign manager said, no, we don't need to. We're the front runner. We don't need to talk to these people, blah, blah, blah. And people resented it. The Reagan was absentee at all these debates. And it fed the rumors too that he was at home because he was too old to run again for president. Now, this was 40 years ago, so he was 69 at the time. And today, that's not 69 yawn, but 40 years ago, it was considered to be an elderly man. Was he up to being president? And there were a lot of columns, a lot of newspaper reports, a lot of TV reports saying he was too old. He was dottering, this, that, the other thing, I mean, Reagan's age and all the polling came up as number one, what is your chief concern about Ronald Reagan?
Craig Shirley (18:53):
His age, age, age. People would turn out when he did speak, they turn out just to see him, just to see how old he looked, right? I mean, they told newspaper reporters. I only came to see how old he is. I didn't come to cheer him or support him. So now it's time for the national debate. And Reagan accepts this because he's now running behind George Bush. The polling in New Hampshire still had him behind George Bush. And so he accepts it, and Bush accepts it too, obviously. And there was a minor side drama over the fact that according to the FDC, at the time, they couldn't sponsor debate with just two candidates. They had to invite everybody unless it was paid for by the campaigns themselves. So the national debate couldn't violate FEC rules by paying for the debate. So the Reagan campaign says, okay, we'll pay for it.
Craig Shirley (19:50):
Reagan said, I'll pay for it. So Reagan ordered the bill for the debate himself so that way he could just make a debate to himself and George Bush and exclude all the other candidates. And so that became a minor dust up because the other four candidates who were called the Nashua four showed up and made a scene, and that became a side story. Anyway, they have the debate now, Reagan is on fire. I mean, he is just clicking on issue after issue about national defense. And George Bush's failure as CIA chairman to anticipate Soviet intentions and all these other things. There comes an explosive moment in the debate where Reagan tries to make a point. Mr. Green, the editor was saying, governor, you sit down. You can't talk. It's not your turn. da. And Reagan finally stands up and explodes and says, Mr. Green, I am paying for this microphone.
Craig Shirley (20:49):
And Nashville High School explodes 3000 people there and just goes crazy now. And of course, George Bush is sitting there, goody tu like this, looking like the school boy who stole the apple pie or something. So now this is showing on television over and over and over. Reagan just exploded because it happened on a Friday night. And so it's for Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for the next four days. And of course, Reagan wins the debate. Big is fully is installed as front runner, and then just really just doesn't walk to the nomination. He's still got to fight for it. But he gets obviously a first ballot nomination in 1980 and takes George Bush to produce a unified convention, which is interesting. I'll tell you as a sidebar, I hear these people on cable television talking about a VP running made for Trump. And they talk about, I saw a girl the other night, obviously she has no campaigning whatsoever. I won't name her name, but she said, well, she used to pick Rubio because Rubio has really good executive experience, and I'm yelling at the tv. I said to Serena, I says, nobody votes for vice president. Nobody picks a vice president because he can sign a piece of paper.
Craig Shirley (22:17):
There's one reason to pick a VP candidate to produce a unified convention. Unified conventions win in the fall, divided conventions lose in the fall. And you think about over the years, 64 Republicans are divided. They lose. Democrats are united, they win 68, the Democrats are united, are divided, Republicans are United. Republicans win 72, the Democrats are divided. Republicans are United. Republicans win 76, the Democrats are united, Republicans are divided. They win 80. The Democrats are divided, the Republicans are united. They win down through history. I can point to example after example, after example, unified convention. So that's why you got to pull the party together. So that's why you pick a vice, why you pick a qualified vice president. That doesn't mean arguing for picking some silly candidate or something, George Clooney or something like this. You pick somebody who's qualified, but somebody who is ideologically simpatico with the delegates to produce a unified convention. I'll tell you like Tim Scott. Tim Scott is the perfect choice for Donald Trump. Absolutely. And why do you say that? Because he and Rand Paul are the two smartest men in the United States Senate. Because he's conservative, because he's articulate as hell. Because if I had to debate Tim Scott, I'd be scared to death that facing him in a debate, I think he would definitely produce a unified convention. He touches all the right, but forget the racial buttons. The man has great depth and great intellect. He would be an excellent choice for Trump.
Jenny Beth Martin (23:48):
I thought that his campaign video, when he launched his campaign for this, for running for president right now, even though he is out, I thought that it was a great video. I thought that his speech was good. I heard some people say, oh, well, it sounded way too scripted or pollsters put it together, whatever. It's like, yeah, but insiders, this is a good message.
Craig Shirley (24:10):
The message. You've got
Jenny Beth Martin (24:11):
To push aside some of that and just this is a good message for America. Exactly.
Craig Shirley (24:15):
He just focus on the message. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. I mean, look, he ran, but a lot of people DeSantis ran nobody. This is Donald Trump's year. This is Donald Trump's year. There's nobody else going to get the Republican nomination other than Donald Trump.
Jenny Beth Martin (24:30):
That's right. That's right. And that's what I thought the whole entire time. I just was like, if they supported Trump, not even, we supported Trump through everything from 2016 all the way on. Do you think all of a sudden we're going to be like, oh, gee, someone else is running. We'll support you.
Craig Shirley (24:48):
It's such an important point. We all made a psychic investment in Donald Trump. It's like Richard Nixon, is that even when he resigned in August 74, is he still had a base in support because voters had voted for him in 52, 56, 60, 68, 72. So they had voted for him five times. They were not just going to walk away from this man because they made a psychic investment in him. Just as voters have made a psychic investment in Donald Trump, justice voters made a psychic investment in Ronald Reagan.
Jenny Beth Martin (25:23):
Right? That's right. And when we're talking about a vice presidential candidate, what you just were saying about a unified ticket is really interesting. And I've listened to debates online and among activists going, well, I want this person or I want that person. And I've always just been like, it doesn't matter what we want. It's what the nominee wants. And I kind of have just said, and also, what do vice presidents do
Craig Shirley (25:53):
Preside with the Senate.
Jenny Beth Martin (25:55):
And if they don't have to go in and vote for Tiebreakers in the
Craig Shirley (26:01):
Senate, one separate millennium, we really voted tiebreaker,
Jenny Beth Martin (26:03):
Then There's not a lot that we're seeing from the vice
Craig Shirley (26:08):
President. When I was working for brief time, I worked for George Bush when he was vice president nap for hiss office. I worked for his political PAC that was getting ready to run him for president in 1998. And he would talk about being vice president. He said he had a motto. He says, you die fly. His job was to go to funerals. That was his job.
Jenny Beth Martin (26:33):
And I think that I heard many speeches or several speeches that the vice president of Pence gave while he was vice president. And he did a great job of explaining what Trump was doing and what the Trump presidency and administration was doing. And I think that's an important role for the vice
Craig Shirley (26:50):
President. That's the job of the Vice President, is to support the president. Right? I mean, you got to think long and hard about a time when even Gerald Ford, when he was vice president under Nixon, only broke, really never broke with Nixon until after Nixon resigned when he said, our long national nightmare is over. But he stood pretty loyally by Nixon. I mean, he would let little things leak out at the very, in the last couple of months when it was obvious to everybody that Nixon was going to have to resign. He'd lost the ability to govern. He'd lost his base of support. You don't have the support of the American people. You don't have anything. But to his credit, he was loyal to Nixon. And even then was very, very circumspect after Nixon's resignation about, he never really criticized him publicly other than say it's over with.
Jenny Beth Martin (27:44):
Okay, so as we move forward, Reagan becomes president. And you mentioned that between 76 and 80, he became much better, much better versed in Soviet Complete. Yes. More complete. Yes. Including in the Regarding Soviets. Yes. That's really
Craig Shirley (28:01):
Well, in 76, he was already a hawk. He was already a hawk, but he didn't really, until 1980, did he really achieve the message. I remember one time during the 80 campaign where he said, we don't need nuclear parody with the Soviets. We need nuclear superiority. And a lot of people condemned him for it, but I knew exactly what he meant is that we need to spend the Soviets in the ground so we can defeat them. We need to use every means at our disposal, radio free Europe Radio, Vatican, working with indigenous third party forces like the Mohaideen and the Velvet Revolution, and the Nicaraguan Contras is to knock the Soviets back on defense. That's what we need to do. And so I understood. It took me a while for it to sink in, but then I realized what Reagan meant about winning. We need an arms race, is what he said. Yeah. Because everybody says, oh, we're getting the arms race. We're getting the arms race. We need another salt trade Soviets can violate.
Jenny Beth Martin (29:04):
And that became really one of his legacy is that he defeated the Soviets. So talk about his presidency.
Craig Shirley (29:13):
Well, he had three great goals he wanted to achieve because a leader Jimmy Carter, there was a saying in 1980 going around the country that if you asked Jimmy Carter what time it was, he'd tell you how to build a watch. And if you asked Ronald Reagan what time it was, he'd say, it's time to get this country moving again once a tactician one as a leader. Reagan didn't sit around scheduling the tennis courts at the White House like Jimmy Carter used to. Jimmy Carter used to schedule the president of skates used to decide who could play and who couldn't play on the tennis on the White House tennis courts. That's insane. He's the president of the United know that there were White House tennis court, which by the way, you were two sports. He loved sports, he loved sports, he loved football, he loved baseball with two sports he despised. One was jogging and the other was tennis. But he probably didn't even know that there were tennis courts at the White House. And you know what? President's not supposed to care about that stuff, right? President's supposed to think about big ideas. And so he thought about big ideas. He thought about the restoration of the American morale was most important.
Craig Shirley (30:22):
He knew instinctively that happy people are productive people. And after 17 years, we had gone through, America, had gone through 17 years of real torture from the time of John Kennedy's assassination through the failure of the Johnson Administration, through the failure of Vietnam, through the failure of Nixon's administration, through high inflation, high interest rates through the seventies with Pet Rocks and John Travolta losing the Soviets and the failure of Jimmy Carter presidency from 1963 to 19. We were used to being winners, right? Americans were winners. We could beat the Nazis, we could beat the Japanese. We could win the Industrial Revolution. We could win the Civil War. I mean, the country could win the Civil War because it really is, is that we believe in freedom for all, right? From the time of the American Revolution, we pretty much won everything. And that's part of the American Creed, right? It's part of American exceptionalism. I mean, that is American exceptionalism. I mean, who would think the two little bicycle repair men from Dayton, Ohio would invent an airplane that could fly changes? They weren't scientists. It changes the world. Yes, changed the world. They weren't scientists.
Craig Shirley (31:42):
They didn't have a high school diplomas. And yet they changed the world by inventing heavier than aircraft, right? The atom, the space race, the moon, all these things we win at, so we're not used to losing, but then starting in 63 through 80, we're losing all the time. We're losing Eastern Europe, we're losing the Soviets. We're losing the Warsaw Pac. We're losing war of inflation. We're losing presidents. Everything. And Reagan changes all that. Reagan changes all that because he talks about the Democratic Party had been the party of the future from the time of, excuse me, from the of the New Deal up until the time of the Kennedy administration, happy days are here again, was FDRs theme song. John Kennedy ran for the New Frontier. It was the New Frontier. And he said, we need to get this country moving again. It was always about the future.
Craig Shirley (32:45):
The Republican Party was the green eye shade, spinach eating bookkeepers. We are the nasty old balanced budget guys, right? Only until 1980 does Reagan acquire supply side economics and a message for the future, right? No, 18-year-old wants to hear about how lousy their future is going to be. The way Carter was talking about a future of scarcity, a future of shrinking pies, a future of, he gave a commencement future of Harvard, 1979. He says, we need to get over our inordinate fear of communism. That's just the words of second place. And in fact, Henry Kissinger, when he was Secretary of State, he said his job was to guide the United States into an acceptable second place. He compared us to Athens and the Soviets of Sparta. And of course, his history was kind of missed, not correct, because even though Sparta's reputation is being militant, and Athens has the reputation of being the intellect, the Pean nation war lasted 300 years with Athens actually winning.
Craig Shirley (33:53):
So he got his history wrong, but everybody knew what he meant. So all the elites, Henry Kissinger, Jimmy Carter, all the elites have this loser's attitude. Reagan comes out of the West as populist is anti-intellectual, conservative, and projects entirely different message. Totally different message. And Americans, people like what they hear, because I remember the debate in 1980 when he is debating Carter. And Carter was chatting him on how his tax cuts would be inflationary. And Carter says, how is an inflationary for the government? Take your money and spend it the way that you want, but it is inflationary for an American individual, keep their money and spend it the way they want. Carter goes, blah, blah. He had no response to that, right?
Jenny Beth Martin (34:42):
Because there isn't a good response to that.
Craig Shirley (34:46):
But I mean, again, it all goes back to individuality, right? Personal freedom, personal dignity, personal privacy,
Jenny Beth Martin (34:55):
And also being willing to do tax cuts, right? Because that helped grow the economy. And you said between 76 and 80,
Craig Shirley (35:03):
That's when he acquired, that's when he started to acquiring the supply side economic message. I remember I was with Reagan, I think it was a CPAC in the early eighties, and there was a private reception before the dinner, and a group of conservatives, we were standing around Reagan, and he was talking about, because these tax cuts were in the proposal stage, and Congress hadn't been passed yet. And he said, look, I know what a lot of people are saying about the patch cuts, but it's not just about economic growth and stimulating the economy. It's also sending power away from the government back to the individual. Reagan knew power cannot be destroyed, nor created power can only be moved around. And power in the form of regulation of speech in the form of taxes had been moving steadily from the time of the New deal up until the Carter's presidency, the power had been moving away from the individual in the states and localities to the national government. Reagan wanted to reverse that as a true federalist. He wanted power for the individual, not for the state. So that was the framework for new federalism. The theme of his administration was to send power back to the individual.
Jenny Beth Martin (36:23):
And it worked well,
Craig Shirley (36:24):
Right? It worked very well.
Jenny Beth Martin (36:25):
Yeah.
Craig Shirley (36:27):
He created 18 million new jobs he created when he became president. There were 4,000 millionaires when he left as president. There were 34,000 millionaires, is that he eradicated high interest rates. He eradicated high inflation. He shrunk the size of, as he promised, he shrunk the size of Washington because he grew the size of the national economy by sixfold. So I mean, in the best of Jefferson, people used to say, well, the Louisiana purchase proved that Jefferson wasn't much of a constitutionalist or a federalist. No, it doesn't. It proves just the opposite. He was, because the Louisiana purchase was six times the size in landmass of the existing country, but he doesn't grow the size of the government. He only grows the size of the country. So that by definition, takes power away from Washington and send it back.
Jenny Beth Martin (37:23):
Diffuse bigger. Yeah, it's a bigger
Craig Shirley (37:25):
Space. And that's what Reagan was doing with his anti antis speech regulation. Don't forget, he signed the fairness. He refused to sign the fairness doc.
Jenny Beth Martin (37:35):
And why is that important?
Craig Shirley (37:36):
Because it gave people the right to speak the way they wanted. The fairness doctrine had been on the books for many years, right? And for years they had it. If Jenny Beth Martin goes on WABC and New York City and talks for half an hour by American conservatism, they got to pick Ralph Nader to come on for half an hour to talk about American liberalism. And it was just a bureaucratic nightmare. And so oftentimes radio shows wouldn't have on Jenny Beth Martin, because then they got to go through the whole rigmarole of getting a liberal and giving him equal time. Reagan said, this is nonsense. It violates the first Amendment. It violates free speech. So he refused to renew the Ferris doctrine. And there were a lot of conservatives like Phil Sch Laffy, who were actually upset with him for not renewing it, but it spawned the growth of hundreds of conservative talk radio stations around the country, which is, for us, is an important part of communication, because we know what the networks are like. We know what the big city newspapers are. But now we have your podcast and we have thousands of other podcasts, and we have talk radio, and we have newsmax and Fox and other cable systems and our own newspapers. The Washington Times. The Washington. So we have our own communications infrastructure that we didn't have 40 years ago.
Jenny Beth Martin (38:58):
And today when people say, oh, we're up against the mainstream media, and how tough it is, and it's tough to be sure, but it is not nearly as tough as when you had none of the other conservative networks to
Craig Shirley (39:10):
When I was coming up spread business, when I was coming up in this business many years ago when I was young, is we didn't have any of that. We didn't have any. And we had National View and the human events. Those were our publications, and there were a couple of newsletters, like Pink Sheet on the left, stuff like that. But that was our form of communication. NBC, you're a conservative, hang up the phone. They wouldn't talk to us, they wouldn't give us the time of day, is that they carried all liberal message. And it's astonishing that we were able to win. Given that communications blackout. It's astonishing that we were able to win starting in, I mean, I wouldn't include Nixon because Nixon wasn't served. He was a Republican. But starting in the seventies, we started pushing back and we started winning because we were getting our message out. And a big portion of that really is direct mail. Big reason for that was VI and other direct mailers for allowing servers to use the post office to get their message out. They couldn't get it out anyplace else,
Jenny Beth Martin (40:15):
Just direct to mailbox,
Craig Shirley (40:17):
Direct contact, contact without.
Jenny Beth Martin (40:19):
And I actually think in the 2024 campaign, that direct contact is going to be very important yet again. Because absolutely, you're getting so many messages on social media and so many messages in your text and so many messages everywhere else that some bad messages. Yeah, so many bad messages that that direct contact is a little bit unexpected to be sure. And the message was one that did resonate with where Americans were, the American exceptionalism. They were feeling down. They needed to restore that American morale
Craig Shirley (40:54):
Is that polling showed American liberalism had dominated American politics from the time of the New Deal up until the 19, late 1970s and polling, polling started popping up saying, the country is growing conservative, not liberal. It's two to one. It was
Jenny Beth Martin (41:11):
Astonishing. Despite all their efforts, it still was going conservative.
Craig Shirley (41:13):
It was going two to one for two reasons. One, we were getting our message out not well, but we weren't getting our message out. And the abject values of liberalism, liberalism failed to, or government, let's put it this way, government failed to protect. John Kennedy. Government failed to win the Vietnam War. Government failed to cure inflation. Government failed to cure high taxes. Government failed at many different levels through the 1960s and seventies. And so there has to be an answer to that. If government is failing, then what is the answer? The answer is the individual, not government. Reagan came along at the right moment and the right time to convey his message.
Jenny Beth Martin (42:00):
Do you see similarities between what Reagan feast with Biden and what Trump feast, I'm sorry, with Reagan feast, you can tell where I'm going. Do you see similarities between what Reagan faced with Carter and what Trump faces right now with Biden? It seems like Biden, and
Craig Shirley (42:18):
I was laughing because I read some of these nonsensical stories comparing Reagan's Normandy speech with Biden's Normandy speech and TV interview this morning. And I said, Reagan's speech was for the ages. Biden's speech was for the minutes.
Jenny Beth Martin (42:33):
Well, and Biden's speech was a plagiarizing.
Craig Shirley (42:38):
He's been a plagiarist his whole life. He has. So what else is new? He's a plagiarist, but he doesn't say it with conviction, doesn't say it with any intellect, doesn't say it with any moral authority.
Jenny Beth Martin (42:49):
And I've listened to the comparisons of the two, and I just think, wow, Reagan, he just sounded like he believed what he was saying. It was coming from his heart, not
Craig Shirley (42:59):
He truly, truly, truly believed in the righteousness of his cause. And what he was saying was right. It was correct. And history proven correct.
Jenny Beth Martin (43:09):
It absolutely did. It seems like as we look at, and I think about where the country was with Carter, there's so many similarities to Carter and Biden right now. The inflation, hostages, hostages, the Afghanistan withdrawal.
Craig Shirley (43:30):
Think of the Afghanistan. The Soviets invade Afghanistan 79, and Carter foolishly invites them, right? Carter does an interview on issues and answers on abc. It says, no, Afghanistan is not in our defensive perimeter. Within weeks, the Soviet Union invades Afghanistan. Biden says 40 years later, says, no, Ukraine is not part of our defensive perimeter. And within weeks, the Russia invades invades Ukraine, right? But then also the comparison between Afghanistan, because our weakness in the face of it with Carter, and then our weakness with the withdrawal with Biden, which by the way, he went against all his military advisor, said, no, Mr. President, this is not a good idea. This is not a good idea to leave a terrorist base open and available in Afghanistan. We have to keep a presence there. He says, no, I'm going to take out consequences be damned. And of course, 13 US service people were killed because of Joe Biden.
Jenny Beth Martin (44:40):
And it just is a horrific image of the planes leaving and people hanging onto the planes. And then when we watch how Biden is responding to Hamas and Israel, it's as if he wants Israel to accept losing what you were saying about Carter wanting to just sort of accept second place for America. I feel like Biden wants us to accept second place. We don't have to be the winner. Well,
Craig Shirley (45:06):
Carter was an arabist. Carter was anti-Israel, there's no doubt about it, is that he said it in so many ways, so many different times. He did. I will. Stu Carter's credit, he did negotiate the camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt and produced a durable piece. They're still, those two countries still a piece of each other. Then Carter deserves the credit for it. But he was no fan of Manum Bacon, who was then the Israeli president. He was very tough on Israel. He was very, very open to the Arabs, just as Joe Biden is. Joe Biden has taken a step further. I mean, Joe Biden has a long history going back to his days in the Senate of being anti-Israel, and that he didn't, in his speech, he talks about World War ii, and he talks about the sacrifice of Normandy, but it doesn't talk about the whole,
Jenny Beth Martin (46:00):
How can you not do that? How
Craig Shirley (46:01):
Can part of, not the whole reason, but a big part of the reason for World War II was World War II was the extermination of 10 or 11 million people, not just 6 million Jews, but 4 million undesirables. Everything from homosexuals to political opponents, to polls to Russians who were all went through many of the Nazi death camps. And by the way, there were many Nazis. There wasn't just Auschwitz or Tur blinker or Au I researched this one time, the Nazis had something like 45 different death camps spread out all through Eastern Europe. But for him to not mention the Holocaust, not to mention the state of Israel, which was created after World War II as a direct result of the Holocaust, not to mention the antisemitism in this country going on, and right now that's brought about by the Democratic left is shameful. Absolutely shameful.
Jenny Beth Martin (46:58):
It truly, it truly is contemp. And in November, Americans will, they're going to have a very distinct choice, and they're going to have to decide, are they better off right now than they were
Craig Shirley (47:11):
Four years, four years ago? Are they better off economically? But also, are they better off spiritually?
Jenny Beth Martin (47:16):
Spiritually? And is our country better off? You feel safer right now than you felt four years ago. Right? Do you feel safe? Do you feel like the world is at a steady place, or are we on the precipice of war?
Craig Shirley (47:29):
I think a lot of Americans feel that way.
Jenny Beth Martin (47:31):
Well, absolutely. Yeah. And a lot about Normandy and about World War ii. I know this book isn't about Normandy, but you have, we've talked about Reagan Bush. You know
Craig Shirley (47:41):
About, well, the 1944,
Jenny Beth Martin (47:44):
And I don't know if I have that one in here. Yeah,
Craig Shirley (47:46):
August, 1944, which was the sequel to December, 1941.
Jenny Beth Martin (47:51):
December 41. And then you also have August, 1944. Yes. Which you don't
Craig Shirley (47:56):
Have out here August, 1940
Jenny Beth Martin (47:58):
5, 19 45, which you not have out here. But both of those are, you've researched World War II as well. So when we talk about Normandy, it isn't just
Craig Shirley (48:10):
Not just an echo of history. I've studied it. I've studied, I've read about it. I've interviewed people about it. I had a friend, Lynn Inger, who's a very dear friend of mine who was a Reagan aid. He was a young army ranger, 19-year-old army ranger on Omaha Beach on June 6th, 1944. These two fingers on his right hand, these were gone because when he was climbing the cliffs, his fingers got blown off by Nazi shrapnel. So he was missing these two fingers. Wow.
Jenny Beth Martin (48:43):
And he just had to keep going.
Craig Shirley (48:45):
He kept going. Yeah, kept going. He was so matter of fact about it. I remember talking to him many times. Lynn was a very good guy and very good friend of mine, and it was the greatest generation. He was representative of the greatest generation because he was very sure I did it. But you know what? Anybody could have done it. It was that type of thing. No, not anybody could have done it. You did it. But he refused to accept, to decorate himself in glory about it and braid around with the medals and things like that. It was just something he had to do. Millions of other young Americans,
Jenny Beth Martin (49:25):
And thank goodness they did.
Craig Shirley (49:27):
Thank goodness they did.
Jenny Beth Martin (49:29):
I took both of my children on separate trips to Normandy, and I'm so glad that I did that. My daughter and I did it sort of a happenstance. The first time I ever went to Europe, she and I and her brother were there, and then the two of us stayed longer, and he had to go back for a Boy Scout camp, come back home to America, and we stayed longer. And I was like, okay, we'll stay longer, but we're going to Normandy. We're close. There's a two hour we're going. And then after I finished, she wound up becoming an exchange student in Spain, and her twin brother and I went and met her to bring her back, and I wanted to meet the family that graciously hosted her. Wonderful. And I said, we're going to go pick her up, but first you're going to Normandy. And so this week is the 80th anniversary was happening, and that's we're last week. And that's when we're filming this, even though this episode may come out a little bit later.
Craig Shirley (50:23):
Excellent,
Jenny Beth Martin (50:23):
Excellent. I was sending them photos and going, remember we both went there? This is big deal. Just pay attention to what an enormous point accomplishment.
Craig Shirley (50:33):
Yeah,
Jenny Beth Martin (50:34):
Accomplishment and sacrifice even
Craig Shirley (50:35):
More for civilization. The Nazis were evil. Stud's Circle was a famous novel, not a novel as he was a famous writer about many things about American culture, but he wrote a book called The Good War, and it was the Good War. If War has to be Good because we are the good guys, there was no moral ambiguity between the two. The Nazis were evil, we were good. So I mean, that's part of the reason why it's such an important war, because it is to defeat evil, and it is a battle for world civilization
Jenny Beth Martin (51:09):
World, not just American but world, not
Craig Shirley (51:10):
Just American world. Civilization
Jenny Beth Martin (51:12):
And survival of the Jewish people as well.
Craig Shirley (51:16):
Yes. Yeah. Who would've surely been exterminating if Hitler had his way wiped off face of the air?
Jenny Beth Martin (51:23):
Well, and everything that is old is new again. So we have to fight these battles, sadly, over and over in our own time. To remind,
Craig Shirley (51:33):
Mark Twain once said, history does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Jenny Beth Martin (51:39):
Craig, we're going to pause right here and in this first half, this first podcast episode, and then we'll resume in the next episode. So we have been joined today by Craig Shirley, who is historian and author.
Narrator (51:53):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Mohan and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.
Jenny Beth Martin (52:12):
If you like this episode, let me know by hitting the light button or leaving a comment or a five star review. And if you want to be the first to know, every time we drop a new episode, be sure to subscribe and turn on notifications for whichever platform you're listening on. If you do these simple things, it will help the podcast grow, and I'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much. I.