The Jenny Beth Show

Luka Hein: Detransition

Episode Summary

Luka Hein opens up about her experience being pushed to transition as a young teenager and the process of detransitioning. She is speaking out against the movement trying to force these procedures on children.

Episode Notes

Luka Hein opens up about her experience being pushed to transition as a young teenager and the process of detransitioning. She is speaking out against the movement trying to force these procedures on children.  Luka was born a biological female and at the age of 16 was pushed to have a double mastectomy, and was also put on testosterone. As the process of transitioning became more and more invasive, Luka finally realized she was not on the right path and quickly began the process of detransitioning as much as possible. 

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Episode Transcription

Luka Hein  (00:00:00):

I went through the gender affirming care system as a minor. My very first medical intervention I ever had was a double mastectomy at 16. And then a few months later, I was put on testosterone and I realized that this was a mistake that was not the help I actually needed. And I had a sensed de det transitioned. To the extent that that is possible,

Narrator (00:00:23):

Keeping our republic is on the line, and it requires Patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author of filmmaker and one of time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she is most proud of is Mom To Her Boy, girl Twins, she has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:00:55):

My boy girl twins are 20 years old now. The last two decades, I've done everything I can to raise my children to be respectful, polite, hardworking, productive Christian members of society who are confident in their own skin. Now they are in college learning where they wanna go in life, and I could not be more proud of the adults they are becoming, with the exception of one year in middle school, they were in public school from kindergarten to 12th grade. I noticed some alarming trends while they were in the public school system, which I chalked up to anomalies and thought were problems with a few individual people working in the school system. What Covid taught all Americans, most especially parents, is that the issues we were witnessing in our public schools are not one-off anomalies. They are happening in almost every school in the country. The problems are systemic.

(00:01:48):

This is a planned disruption of how kids in America are educated. Plus our kids are being bombarded about gender ideology or transgenderism, or gender dysphoria on social media, in advertisements by major corporations and in shows, in movies that are made for children. The effects on our children are devastating. My next guest is Luca Hein. Luca is a brave young woman who was caught up in all of this. She began transitioning at the age of 16, but now she regrets those decisions and is going through the medical process of det transitioning. Luca is standing up and speaking out against all of this indoctrination because she wants to prevent what she went through from happening to other kids. If you were a parent who is looking for answers on how to talk to your kids about the harmful effects of transgenderism, I hope this episode helps. And if you do find it helpful, please be sure to like the video, subscribe to the podcast, and most importantly, share it with other parents, you know, so that we get the message out there as far and wide as possible. Well, Luka Hein, thank you so much for, for joining us today. You are, um, an advocate and have, have been through really quite, quite an amazing experience in your, your pretty young life. Mm-hmm. . Um, could you talk about, could, could we give people some information about what you've gone through because you have transitioned and det transitioned?

Luka Hein  (00:03:28):

Yeah. So I am what is known as a detransition. I went through the gender affirming care system as a minor, um, and was really put down that as like my only path. My very first medical intervention I ever had was a double mastectomy at 16, um, before hormones or anything like that. And then a few months later I was put on testosterone. Um, and then I grew up a little bit more and I realized that this was a mistake. That was not the help I actually needed. And I have since det transitioned to the extent that that is possible, but I will always deal with some form of like, health effects from this most likely.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:04:08):

And you were 16 years old? Mm-hmm. ? Yes. Um, how did the, what happened when you went into the, the doctor? Did you go to any kind of therapy before you went to the

Luka Hein  (00:04:23):

I did. So what happened was, I was a teenager who had a lot of what are called comorbidities, um, when it comes to, you know, this kind of medical practice I had, you know, I suffered from depression, anxiety, adhd. My home life at the time was kind of rough. I had just changed to a new high school and was having trouble with friends there. Um, along with that I was groomed and preyed upon online to the point of authorities actually getting involved in that matter. Um, and it ended up all with me kind of spiraling into this hatred of my body and myself really. And it, I came across these spaces online where this kind of almost like these normal, like teenage going through puberty concerns I had along with everything else going on in my life, was really twisted into, no, you're just born in the wrong body and you are actually meant to be a boy.

(00:05:17):

You know, you hate your breasts, not cuz you're a teenager who has been through some pretty traumatic stuff. It's because you're actually a boy born in the wrong body. And from there, um, my parents were told about all this while I was in what is called a partial hospitalization program. So it's essentially like a step down from inpatient. It's essentially an intensive therapy program. And they were told about that. They were told, do you want a dead daughter or a living son? And from there it was affirmation all the way down. I ended up seeing a therapist that specializes in gender diverse youth, is the term that she uses. Um, and it it really was just affirmation and yes, this is what is going on with you. It was never, we're gonna get to the bottom of this and see maybe where these feelings are coming from.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:06:10):

And you were in this, um, this therapy program and I'm presuming that your parents had, had you in that program or were supportive of you being in that program because they cared about you and they Yeah. They wondered what was best for

Luka Hein  (00:06:24):

You. Yeah, the initial, uh, partial hospitalization program was actually for like my other mental health issues at the time. Um, and then when I told the, like professionals there that that program specifically wasn't like equipped to handle this kind of thing at the time. Um, but they did go along with like, we're just gonna affirm this, this is what's going on. And it really almost seemed like when that, when the gender issues came up, as soon as you like speak those words into existence, everything else going on almost seems to get pushed to the side.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:06:58):

So then any other depression mm-hmm. or anxiety or it,

Luka Hein  (00:07:03):

It was, it was seen a lot more as instead of maybe everything else going on in your life, maybe causing these ideas of why you, you feel like you need to escape your body. Instead it was no, we need to affirm your need to escape your body. And then those other issues will go away, which is a very backwards way about how you should go about like, working on this issue.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:07:26):

Um, and, and did you meet any resistance medically from, from doctors or therapists?

Luka Hein  (00:07:33):

No, not from, not from any professionals.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:07:37):

Um, and you just said something that is rather shocking, sadly, it, when we turn on social media, we were hearing more and more about this, but you had a double mastectomy at 16 years old. Mm-hmm. , you couldn't even know possibly what the consequences of that are going to be long term at 16 years

Luka Hein  (00:07:58):

Old. Yeah, I didn't know. I definitely, you know, given my mental health state and also my age, I was definitely not able to fully comprehend like what the full, like the long-term consequences of this would be. Um, as well as really just understand what exactly that surgery meant. Cuz um, at least at the time on social media, it was really painted as like this kind of simple liberating thing that you can get done. Instead of it being like, no, you are having a full body part removed. That part was not even in the discussion. It feels like at the time it was all very much rephrased in this very positive, almost affirming language.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:08:38):

Um, and, and then you began testosterone. Mm-hmm. , it's six months later, is that what you said? Or It

Luka Hein  (00:08:46):

Was, I got surgery in July and then November of that same year I started on testosterone.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:08:51):

Did you have, and then at, at some point you decide you, you, this is not the right thing for you mm-hmm. , but when you, in this point, when you're beginning the testosterone, what were the changes that, that you noticed?

Luka Hein  (00:09:07):

Um, I said, the first one I noticed is your, your skin texture chart starts to change. So that starts feeling different. Um, you get acne, your voice starts to drop. Um, body hair, longer term ones or like fat redistribution. Um, even like the kind of the shape of your face can change a little bit. And you know, when you, when you first start, of course it, it, it feels good cuz it's one, it's a steroid essentially, but also testosterone. It has like natural antidepressant factors. So of course you're gonna have this almost like high placebo effect of just like, oh yes, of course this feels good because that's what it's meant to do essentially, even if it's tearing your body apart.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:09:48):

And was it tearing your body apart?

Luka Hein  (00:09:50):

It was now I took testosterone for four years, um, and around like that last little bit, and especially, especially since I have stopped it, I deal with joint pain, vocal cord pain, um, atrophy of certain parts of my body, heart issues, um, really, really scary stuff to be dealing with. Especially like, I'm only 21. So it, it's, it's not fun to think about those things. And it's one of those things where, um, once again, I, I was 16 and the, the idea that I was somehow, you know, capable enough of understand, understanding long-term consequences to sign off on essentially my body's function and my fertility is insane. Like, looking back at it, it is absolutely insane that any medical professional who took an oath to do no harm would look a 16 year old in the eyes and call something like this care.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:10:50):

I I agree 100%. I had to go through fertility treatments to get pregnant. And I, I have twins, boy girl twins. Um, when I, I was 16, I was the oldest of four kids. My youngest brother was only like mm-hmm. , um, 12 and a half years younger than me, so I'm 16, he would've been four. Um, and maybe even just three. It, he, I didn't even think I wanted to have children though. Mm-hmm. when I was 16. Cause I've been helping take care of him since he was born. And I was like, oh, I don't need to be a mom. I was a big sister who helped take care of her brother.

Luka Hein  (00:11:31):

I, I think, um, it's a very normal thing at 16 to not want kids. And would, it would be more strange for a 16 year old to be like, yeah, I, I want kids now. Right. We'd be like somewhat concerned about that. Yeah. Um, but for some reason if a 16 year says they don't want kids, ever, we take their word for that as if you don't mature in those next few years,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:11:55):

In those next few years. And then even from the time I was in my early twenties till my mid and late twenties, I mu much more mature. You, you're facing a lot more maturity mm-hmm. even, even over the, the next decade or so. Mm-hmm. , I guess we are always facing it throughout our whole life. But, um, then when I couldn't have children and had to seek medical help to be able to have children, I, I have just become this person who is, I'm just always like, you have to look out for the f for fertility. Mm-hmm. , you always, I'm always thinking, you've gotta look out for fertility. You don't know what a new drug might be doing. You just pay attention to fertility. Because when you're a kid, you don't understand that when you're older. It, it might be something that, that you actually really long for. And it infuriates me when I, um, think about what's happening to kids from that perspective, especially just because of, of what I had to go through medically with for fertility treatments. But there's no way as a 16 year old, even probably as a 20 year old or an 18 year old, that you quite understand what what you might want a decade later.

Luka Hein  (00:13:10):

I mean, and and you say, you say that in infuriates you, but I have like another aspect of it that might make you a little bit more mad. All

Jenny Beth Martin (00:13:16):

Right. Bring

Luka Hein  (00:13:17):

It on. Um, is I, my doctor and I had actually discussed when I was 18 about a hysterectomy. Oh. Um, and she made it sound like the simplest thing in the world. Um, it was just the next step in gender affirming care. You know, it, we didn't, she didn't really make it sound like it had any, any downside. She was even like, oh, you know, you can, you can keep your ovaries in case you want in case you do want children. So then maybe you could do some weird form of like IVF with a surrogate and still have biological kids. But that's also just like putting you down another medical pathway. Right. That could have been like avoided. Um, but that, that surgery was actually where my parents absolutely put their foot down and kind of woke up a little bit to the fact that like, this isn't , this isn't, you know, this isn't care.

(00:14:07):

Um, they were really, cuz they know the long-term impacts of what that does to the body. They know that that is not a simple surgery. They know what it does to your like pelvic floor structure. And they had that full understanding because of their knowledge in that area that really allowed them to put their foot down. Whereas before they were just trusting, essentially trusting the experts thinking that this had like years of actual scientific backing and, you know, the, their biggest crime in all this was trusting a medical industry they thought was gonna help. Um, but that was the moment where they were really like, no, this is, that's not care. I, I have a distinct memory of me like sitting in the other room at the clinic, um, getting, getting my blood work done or something and just sitting in the chair. And I could, I could, I remember hearing my dad scream at the doctor, like, lots of kids have mental health issues. That doesn't mean we sterilize them. And you know, thinking back on that, like of course at the time I was a teenager and like sit and I was embarrassed cuz I could hear my parents like yelling in the other room. But like looking back, that's one of the moments that like, I I am so forever grateful.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:15:20):

I'm, I am grateful that they did that as well. And that is infuriating. Mm-hmm. . It is, it is really, even as you're older and you, you're facing a hysterectomy under normal circumstances, the doctors are telling you, these are the pros, these are the cons. We're not just gonna give you a hysterectomy just for the heck of it. Yeah.

Luka Hein  (00:15:40):

You're like, like even medically necessary. Right. Hysterectomy, they go through almost every other option first before that is the step they take. Yes. And the fact that this is essentially being offered up almost to young people is like, okay, well this is just your next step is highly concerning. Cuz even like you have women and they're like thirties that can't get one. They're like, I, it can't even get their tubes tied sometimes. And they're just like, I'm, I'm done having kids, you know, I want this. And they're not getting that. But the fact that doctors will look an 18 year old in the eyes and be like, yes, this is a simple surgery and we can do it for you is is insane.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:16:18):

And what was the the reason for, for it?

Luka Hein  (00:16:22):

It was essentially, well, this is the next step so then you won't be able to get pregnant. Um, along with the fact that test taking testosterone for long periods of time in the female body can cause atrophy of that area. Um, as it, it was essentially just the scene as the next step of like, okay, well you've done, you know, you've done the chest surgery, you've taken hormones, what's next? Um, would be hysterectomy and then bottom surgery, which I never intended going to that last one, but like the other one was like a half step. And I believe that that was the, a hysterectomy would've been enough for me to be able to change my birth certificate. And that was the pri like primary justification for it at the time.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:17:03):

Wow. But could you change, say your driver's license? Yeah. So you didn't really need to change your birth certificate mm-hmm. because other legal documents showed what Yeah. What you wanted at that, at that point or could have shown what you wanted at that point. Mm-hmm. . Um, okay, so your parents said, said no there, I'm, I'm very glad I, I can't imagine, um, being a parent of teenagers or a teen, I, I see plural because I have twins. But, um, in a doctor saying, well you need to do this because your child might commit suicide if you don't, that's an incredible Yeah. Just emotionally

Luka Hein  (00:17:48):

It's emotional emotionally it's emotional blackmail. And that is also not how professionals talk about suicide. That is how, those are not the words of a doctor. Those are the words of an activist. Um, cuz typically when you follow like standard guidelines on suicidality, and this is actually a problem that trans activists has have a huge issue of perpetuating to the point where they are likely causing lots of damage to young people is, you know, suicidality does have a well-known social contagion factor to it. Yes. And the fact that it is not talked about as the most serious thing and is thrown around as a form of essentially emotional blackmail in this conversation is once again highly concerning. And those are not the words of a doctor. Those are the words of an activist. And even the activist, if they genuinely cared about preventing suicide, they would not talk about it in the way they do.

(00:18:42):

They would not talk about death in the way they do. They would not, you know, they would not throw, throw around lines like, do you want a dead daughter or a living son? Would you rather be planning a transition or a funeral or a more recent one Death before detransition. Wow. And what you are telling young people when you say these things is that instead of it will get better, it may be tough right now, we're gonna get you help. You need to manage these feelings. Cause we know how to manage people who are having suicidal ideation. Ideation. We do all the time. Right. All the time when that happens, um, for other issues. But for some reason for this one, plastic surgery is the answer. Um, we know how to manage that. And instead of telling them, you know, it will get better, things are tough.

(00:19:27):

You are implanting the idea in their head that if they do not get a very specific course of affirmation that that is their alternative. And I know this personally because despite the fact that I have never been suicidal, I was, that was never a, you know, that was never a real risk for me. Even back, like in my lowest point, um, dealing with my teenage mental health circles. That was never a risk for me. And, you know, looking back, understandably, uh, parents are still concerned even if, like I say I'm, I said I'm not at the time obviously mentally ill teenager. You're gonna probably take that with a little grain of salt. But, um, it was never an issue for me. They were still told the do you want a dead daughter or a living son, um, that was still used as emotional blackmail. And hearing that line repeated over and over again from the trans community of essentially you are at very high risk for suicide, if you don't do this, it can really stick in the back of your head of like, okay, well I don't feel that way right now, but what if I don't go through with this, then will I feel like that?

(00:20:35):

And it puts such a driver behind that, what if that it is almost putting people down a fast track of wanting to get these medical procedures done. Because in the back of your mind you have that little like, well, I don't feel suicidal now, but what if tomorrow I I feel like because I don't have this, I am gonna feel that way. Um, and it is a very dangerous way to have that conversation.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:21:05):

Um, there was a, a, a young man who, who committed suicide who was in my, my kids' class at school. And afterwards immediately following that, I, I did a lot of research on teenage suicide because I, you know, because I'm a parent and you worry about those things. And I, I learned through that research just how much of a, so a social contagion it is mm-hmm. and how I, I didn't know this be before I, I I read about that. But, um, the, I believe it's the Associated Press has standards for how they, even in headlines, if somebody has committed suicide, how they address it. So they don't, they don't flash that in the headline mm-hmm. , they, they kind of bury, bury that much further in the article because they don't wanna contribute to it. And then you have doctors sitting there like mm-hmm , here's your alternative. Do this or

Luka Hein  (00:22:06):

All of the major L GBT organizations as well. If you actually go and find some of their guidelines when they talk about this stuff, they're like, do not contribute it to one factor. Do not imply that legislation will be the cause of it. Um, I, I could pull them up. But it's, it is essentially the same thing of like, do not oversimplify this, this is a serious issue. Do not contribute it to only legislation. It cannot be traced back to only one source. That is not how this works. And yet even when the major L G B T organizations are telling you do not talk about it like this in some of their guidelines, you still have activists. You have politicians that will sit there and tell you that you are killing kids or there is blood on your hands, or this will cause kids to kill themselves when that is the most irresponsible take that you could ever say out loud, let alone nationally broadcast it. And what you are saying when you talk like that in my mind at this point is that you essentially want that to happen because if you actually cared about these kids and their mental health, you would not talk like that.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:23:15):

I agree. And based on everything that I've researched about it, any adult should know better. Mm-hmm.

Luka Hein  (00:23:22):

, every one of them should know better. They're abhorrently, ignorant or evil when you talk like that. Absolutely. And I, I pray it's the first, and I fear if it's the latter, frankly,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:23:35):

Um, death before detransition mm-hmm. , that's one of the lines

Luka Hein  (00:23:42):

As well, that is a newer one. And it's not, I've talked about it before, but it's not even necessarily directed at Detransition. Some of them directed. I've seen, I've seen posts where it's like death before detransition. I didn't say it was gonna be my death. Which are scary lines. Yes. Um, for different reasons than the previous topic. But like that, that's a scary line by itself. But also it really is putting young people in this kind of paradigm where they can't leave you. Even if, let's say someone has to deran, let's say they're, they're a true believer in this still. Um, you know, and they, they're true believer, they're part of the community. There's toe in the line, they're still gung ho and they have to detransition because of something medically. Medically.

(00:24:38):

How do you think that person's gonna feel like no matter how small that that population is, they are still like that. Um, like how do you think they're gonna feel when they have to detransition because of something or have to stop medical treatment? And they hear you say, it's better off to be dead than to have to detransition. It is highly irresponsible. And it also really is almost cult-like in how you talk about it because, you know, a community that was truly about like love and acceptance, they wouldn't tell you you're better off dead than maybe maturing and finding out, finding more about yourself and wanting to deal in the, the game of reality essentially. Um, and instead you, you get them saying stuff like that and posting about that. And like I said, it's not necessarily directed at the public de transitioners. It is more so a threat inwards towards the community. Cuz the public detransition have already, we've already essentially left the cult. We've already were out. They already treat us like apostates would from a, a religion. We're already, they can't do anything about that. But at that point it is almost a scare tactic to make sure you don't question what's going on to make sure you stay there and you tow that line. Because to them they just, they need that. If they cannot maintain that essential internal policing of their own community in that way, um, it tends to fall apart rather quickly.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:26:13):

Um, you, you started this at 16, you're 21 and so you must have de begun mm-hmm. changing medically, back det transitioning fairly recently.

Luka Hein  (00:26:27):

Yeah. I started det transitioning around like September, early October of this past year. So 2022 when I was 20. Um, and that was an entire process of me essentially coming to the conclusion on, based on like several different things going on that this was something I'm not gonna proceed. I would rather, you know, instead of trying to fight reality and biology at every single turn and the onslaught of that for the rest of my life, I said, you know what, I'm gonna deal in reality, I'm gonna stop this. And even if it's hard, I would rather face these problems knowing I am standing in reality and I can deal with them rather than essentially continue down that path.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:27:22):

Um, in, in, you're, you're public now mm-hmm. , but when you began that were, I can't imagine that you're like, well now I'm gonna get a shot at from the roof

Luka Hein  (00:27:31):

Detox. Yeah. No. Um, originally during the, like when I was a first det transitioning, there was, uh, a little, a little bit of like a hubbub of someone I know made a, a video and that was like circulating mm-hmm. on specifically like more conservative, um, I don't know what you wanna commentators . Right. Um, along with some more leftist ones, essentially mocking that person. And I, I remember I at the time had made essentially a little video diary for myself. It was different clips I had to cut up, but, um, and it was just me kind of ranting to my phone, sitting in my pajamas in my attic. And I, it got to the point where I was like, okay, well, you know, I might as well like make a Twitter account and share it. It some, someone might find it helpful. I expected like 20 people to see it. And then it had like half a million views on it when the next day when I woke up, um, I, so yeah, I did. I didn't expect that to happen.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:28:34):

. No, I would imagine not. Um, and I'm sure that when that happened you were getting it from all sides mm-hmm. and, and and every angle in between. Yeah. Um, in, when you did that video that went viral, how far along were you in the process of det transitioning? Had you stopped taking testosterone

Luka Hein  (00:28:57):

At that point? I would've essentially either. I'm trying to remember. Either just, I would've just stopped at the time. Wow. Um,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:29:04):

So you're having hormonal and chemical changes while all this viral attention mm-hmm. is happening. That's, that's a lot. Mm-hmm.

Luka Hein  (00:29:12):

Because I, I remember I, I filmed it cuz it originally was just supposed to be for myself. Um, and so I, I filmed it and then I didn't post it until like a couple weeks later, but at the time I, I would've been like just stopping, uh, testosterone. And I remember cuz I, I filmed it at home, then I went back up to college when I actually, when I actually posted it. But,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:29:35):

Um, when, when that, that part happened, um, have I, I wanna talk about your activism in a minute, but mm-hmm. , but medically did, did, well. You, you said a few minutes ago that you, you're having joint pain mm-hmm. and your vocal cords. And I, is it, are you better than you were before or how are you

Luka Hein  (00:30:00):

Doing? Some things have gotten better. Some things have either stayed the same or gotten worse. Okay. Um, essentially right after you stop testosterone, when your body's kind of thrown into limbo like that, the closest thing to it is you're essentially throwing your body into a mini menopause at 20 years old. And so during the fall, I had a lot of, you know, like either chills or hot flashes, night sweats, uh, nausea, dizziness, just all, all of essentially the, the worst parts of that mm-hmm. . And the worst part was, is I couldn't do much about it because you were essentially stuck in a, a waiting game of wait and see if things will even like restart and you'll get better. I got some blood work done at the time just to see where I was at. Um, but even then it, it was just that the, the joint pain has relatively stayed the same. Um, heart palpitations, I've gotten almost more like worse essentially, um, over this like spring, you know, stuff like that. Vocal cord pain depends on how long I talk for. But

Jenny Beth Martin (00:31:07):

The doctor who, who, who administered that portion? Is it the same one? No. Okay. And in is there, are there doctors? How, are there a lot of doctors who are helping with, with the det transitioning?

Luka Hein  (00:31:25):

Not really. This doctor I went to, um, she, she's pretty, she was nice. I'm, I'm no longer, I don't think gonna see her just for other reasons from between our conversations we've had where I, I don't feel comfortable, but, um, she, she's nice enough and I essentially went in, I sat down in like the little patient room and I, like, I was very candid. I went through, this is what is going on. Th I essentially went, this is what I need you to do. Here are the hormone. Like we went through, um, it was like progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, and my thyroid, like the, that's what we needed checked. Um, but she looked at me after I explained everything and she went, I, I want to help you, but I have no idea what to do with you. There's no protocol for this. Um, which is frankly kind of terrifying to hear from the medical professional.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:32:15):

Um, but it was honest. It

Luka Hein  (00:32:16):

Was honest. It's, and I, I appreciated it at least.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:32:19):

Yeah.

Luka Hein  (00:32:21):

Um, but yeah, she, she, we did blood work. But aside, aside from that, like I said, it was a, it was a wait and see thing. Um, still is,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:32:31):

I, I, um, I think that the doctors who are are working on, on this part, because I think that it is possible, I don't know, but it's possible that we wind up seeing more people who decide to de transition. Given how many have transitioned, you're,

Luka Hein  (00:32:49):

You're already seeing it.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:32:51):

I, I hope they are connecting and, and starting to share protocols and mm-hmm. and communicate. And if they're not and they're listening to this, they can reach out to me and I mm-hmm. am really good at connecting doctors. . I've done that a lot since the beginning of the lockdowns.

Luka Hein  (00:33:07):

A big, a big issue here is that there is no standard standard of care, um, for Detransition. And there is also no way to get insurance to cover any of this. Um, which means that if you're someone who needs to maybe go see like two or three doctors or specialists to get specific things looked at, that is not only gonna be hard to find someone who's willing to help you on this issue. Cuz what the detransition in general have discovered is there as many medical professionals that are very, um, iffy on if they even want to associate with us in this, in this realm. Um, not only that, you can't get anything covered, so you're gonna probably be paying for it out of pocket. And then you even have states now that where it is mandated that one way be covered. So transitioning is covered.

(00:33:54):

They have explicitly excluded detransition from care. Um, Oregon is the one where I believe that got passed into law. And then Texas is one where the democrats there cheered as they voted down a bill that would've helped both people who had complications from transition transition and stayed transitioned and would've helped Detransition. Um, it is seemingly in the world of certain medical professionals and legislation around standards of care, um, that detransition is like the, the word that will just either kill it or needs to be excluded, which in a, in a realm where you already don't have medical professionals that want to help you and you're already very essentially isolated in this experience, um, is once again it's scary.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:34:47):

Yes. It's very scary. Um, so you had this viral video and I would imagine that that began your activism or,

Luka Hein  (00:34:57):

Or, um, a a little bit. I actually didn't do very much after that video was

Jenny Beth Martin (00:35:04):

Originally you were dealing with night sweat sweats.

Luka Hein  (00:35:06):

I was dealing with all of my health issues. I was also still like actively taking classes at the time. So I was a little more focused on that, um, you know, doing those things. And then the, a few like reporters reached out to me originally, um, and just as in like, oh, like we can do this via text exchange essentially on Twitter. Um, but aside from that, the, the only the first time I actually like flew anywhere to be part of a conversation would've been to New York to go on Chris Chrisner show.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:35:37):

Oh wow. Okay.

Luka Hein  (00:35:38):

Um, cuz they were doing an, an like an investigative piece and that was one of the first times that like a detransition had been brought on to be a part of that conversation.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:35:48):

Did they treat you fairly on that show? Yeah. That's good. Mm-hmm. there

Luka Hein  (00:35:51):

Was every, everyone was very nice. There was a doctor who is transgender who is actually sitting next to me who she's very, very nice. Um, and really like wants to work through everything with this and make sure people are actually getting care. That's good. Um, everyone was very nice. There was one doctor who is very much a pro transition in every case who has apparently testified places in support of letting young children, um, have access to these, these medical experimental medical procedures who I noticed that she would not make eye contact with me and she, she couldn't look me in the eyes. Um, and you know, that's when I, that's when I first started thinking about some of these doctors are essentially having right now an extreme form of cognitive dissonance. Yes. Um, because imagine if you think that you've been doing something that is helping people and then you have to accept the fact that what you are doing is not supportive by systematic review and is also harming people in the long run. Breaking through that cognitive dissonance, there is going to be something that I am convinced that not a lot of people are gonna be able to do. And so that is why you see so many people just dig their heels in cuz to do anything otherwise would have to essentially be accepting of some pretty dark, um, realities.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:37:15):

I think that you are right about that and, and I, um, I've noticed this from, from things that, uh, were, were grappling with because of covid mm-hmm. lockdown, some of the, the medical things that happened with that. Um, it is human nature. It is not to admit that you've made a mistake mm-hmm. . So it's really hard to admit that you've made a mistake and accept it and, and, and move beyond that. We just, we tend to mm-hmm. to reject that we've ever made mistakes. And so, uh, I think it takes coming to reality like with the cognitive dissonance and then also being mature enough to say, okay, I I, I made a mistake. Now how can I, how can I learn from it and what can I do next? Because you can't change history. Mm-hmm. that doctor if she was a she, right? Yes. If she, she did what she did and what she's done and any of the doctors who are doing this and they, they did it because they thought it was a right thing. Mm-hmm. Okay. And now we found out this is not the right thing. And, and some of us may have thought, well I never would've thought it was the right thing, but I can't change what they did in the past. All I can do is try to help fix it the future

Luka Hein  (00:38:35):

And, and

Jenny Beth Martin (00:38:36):

Learn from it.

Luka Hein  (00:38:36):

Mm-hmm. . And that is, um, a sentiment that if some of these doctors are having, like if you're, you're thinking, okay, I wanna help fit, fix things, now really would be the time to start like speaking out that you want to help fix things because, um, the bridge between Detransition and the medical community is one that is going to be very hard to repair. Cuz a lot of us, myself included here, why would we want to turn back to a medical industry that did this to us? Why would, why should we trust you again? And on the one hand that makes it understandably may be a little bit harder to work with Detransition, but then again, when you have at this point what can be considered like medical trauma, some people are gonna have to be up to the task if you want to truly do what your profession is known for and help people.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:39:31):

But they're out there. They're, I don't know who they are. They are, but they are out there and I, I, I'm, this conversation with you is making me, I'm, I'm gonna figure out a way to help connect doctors if they're willing to mm-hmm. just, they can reach out to me. My email address is jenny dot beth tea party patriots.org. And I have connected thousands of doctors since 2020. And I, I can do that and leave doctors to do the, the, the medical discussions. Mm-hmm. , but just help keep helping connect them. I'm really good at connecting

Luka Hein  (00:40:03):

People. Another issue on that is some of these doctors, even if they want to help, they are up against what is essentially the affirmative care model, which is something that, you know, even doctors who think this is wrong is essentially like a silencing like tape over their mouth. They can't, and they, they will lose their, they will lose their job, they'll lose their license if they do not affirm,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:40:25):

And it may be illegal in their states. Mm-hmm. , so they may be facing lawsuits or, or jail time.

Luka Hein  (00:40:31):

Yeah. Which is, you know, you know, we know that the a let's say like the average pediatrician, we know that they want, most of them want like a systematic review of evidence, um, on this topic. And they are not getting that because of activists who have infiltrated certain levels of, let's say like the American Pediatrics Association, um, these big organizations that in reality don't represent, you know, every pediatrician. Right. Um, you know, you, you hear all the time, like every major, your medical organization in the US supports this. None of them have performed systematic reviews. And also the US is not the only place with major medical organizations. And there is, you know, a certain level of, I suppose a very American hubris to think that we are the center of the world on this. And we have so many other countries pulling back from this kind of thing.

(00:41:26):

After, after doing the systematic review, one place in the earth that did do a systematic review was Florida. Um, and Florida, you know, despite how much people scream about what's going on down there, went about it in the most professional and like the most scientifically sound way. They got their board of medicine together, they did a very lengthy review of evidence and listened to people from all sides. And they came to the conclusion that there is no evidence for this and it should not be done to kids. And that is essentially what would be like ideally the gold standard when it comes to dealing with this issue. You get the medical boards involved, you'd be like, you, you have them look over all this evidence and you know, it, it just so happens that whenever you have these medical boards looking over evidence, like you have, um, in the UK with the Tavistock, you have in Finland, Sweden, I believe the Netherlands, Norway, um, even certain organizations in, I believe France and Australia and maybe Germany have that are looking into this more.

(00:42:33):

Um, you know, it it's, they come to a conclusion that activists do not like when you actually look at all of the scientific evidence compiled together, cuz you can pick out bits and pieces like you can throw like one off studies, right. Most of them are done without a control group. Um, have a, uh, lost a follow up rate that is so high that they would be considered very, very poor evidence if like usable at all. Um, they're normally short term, they normally have questionable like standards of how they went about like using questionnaires and things like that. Um, and you can put, you can pull these and like throw them be like, oh, just read the abstract look, it supports what I say. And you can throw these one-off studies at people, but it, it seems to be when you do a comprehensive systematic review of evidence that a different picture emerges. And it is very strange that the activists who will scream the science is settled about this topic, um, get very, very quiet when you bring up the systematic review of evidence.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:43:41):

Follow the experts mm-hmm. as long as you're saying what I

Luka Hein  (00:43:44):

Want to hear. Yeah. That, that is essentially the, the vibe is follow. Listen to the doctors, listen to the medical professionals until, you know, apparently don't listen to the, the non-American professionals that have come to the conclusion that this isn't good for kids. You know, all this, I, I remember having friends who, you know, when they talk about healthcare, all they talk about is, oh my God, we should be more like the Nordic countries with all these things. We should be more like the Nordic countries. We should have like that national health system like they have in the uk and then on this topic they get very, very quiet when those, um, those systems have done the systematic reviews and come out with this isn't for kids. Um, and then from there you also, the question of why is it that in these countries where their health system essentially doesn't make profit, are they coming to the conclusion that we should, we should, um, we should not do this to kids. And then in the one where it is a large money maker to the point where hospital officials have come out and admitted it on video, I believe it was Vanderbilt where you had a higher up saying like, we can fund entire hospitals on this.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:44:57):

Yeah. I think that you're right. That's where, um,

Luka Hein  (00:44:59):

It, it is just like, it becomes more and more blatant when you, you realize just how much money is being made off of this that wasn't happening in those other countries, um, that allowed them to quickly do a systematic review and get this essentially shut down. Where in the US you have obviously financial incentives to dig your heels in or make the train go full steam ahead.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:45:26):

Right. And if it wasn't Vanderbilt, it was a hospital in, in, there's in Nashville

Luka Hein  (00:45:31):

Somewhere, there's multiple, there's been multiple at this point. Right. I think it was, there's also somewhere in, I think somewhere in California that you had a doctor saying like, you know, if they, if they regret it, we can just give them breast implants later. Um, there was that video it Yeah.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:45:50):

, but the, your your breast survey purpose Yeah. And and implant is cosmetic.

Luka Hein  (00:45:57):

There has been, yeah. They, like I said, I think like I said earlier, is the fact that they don't, at least in the trans community, uh, talk about this though, like, yeah, no, you're losing a whole functional organ. Right? They treat it like, oh no, you're, you're just getting like a little bit of fat removed. Like no, that is a whole functioning organ that you are removing that is an amputation. Um, and the fact that it is soea easily brushed aside by some of these people is, oh, you can just get implants. Um, kind of negates the entire point of the people who have detransition and are like suffering with the consequences of this. You know? Cause I've heard it, I've heard, I've seen it where it's like, oh, uh, just get implants. Just adopt if you're worried about fertility, um, just, it's like, just do this other thing. Um, which misses the point about what we're talking about is this shouldn't have been allowed to happen in the first place. I will manage how I see fit, but that is not the point of like, when I bring up these topics, it isn't, oh, I should just do this. It is, this should not have happened in the first place. And the fact that it did should concern you

Jenny Beth Martin (00:47:11):

That it should not have happened. And, um, you can't, you couldn't buy alcohol mm-hmm. until I, I, I don't know exactly how old you are, but sometime in the last year you couldn't even buy alcohol. Let's see,

Luka Hein  (00:47:30):

March like four months ago. So I couldn't

Jenny Beth Martin (00:47:34):

Until four months ago you couldn't buy alcohol, but they were considering giving a full hysterectomy or the oli your ovaries then mm-hmm. and, um, double mastectomy and major and drugs, steroids. Mm-hmm. hormones. That, that wreak havoc on your body. It

Luka Hein  (00:47:51):

Is, it is also crazy cuz let's say if, if a man wanted to walk into a clinic and be like, I want this kind of testosterone because I want to, you know, go to the gym and build muscle, that would be illegal. Like, you can't, you can't do that. It's like, I believe it's a schedule three drug. It's, it's on the list somewhere. Um, but you, you wouldn't be able to do that. And yet we are giving it to teenage girls and just complete, also completely ignoring the effects. Like some of the explanations for the effects I've been having, um, I had to go get from female bodybuilders, like forums for them where they are talking about where they did like a course of steroids essentially. So not long term constantly like I was on, but even just like a course or two of steroids and them talking about the issues they face. Like we know what this does to the female body and we have seemingly forgotten that on this topic. Or we

Jenny Beth Martin (00:48:52):

Just are

Luka Hein  (00:48:53):

Ignoring it. It, or are willfully ignoring it in the sake of, oh, it's fine cuz the magical gender identity like Mythos told us that this is okay and won't have that same effect.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:49:06):

Um, so we wanna stop this from happening to kids. And I saw, the way that I wound up learning about who you are is I saw a video of you, I think it was outside of the California legislature or maybe the Texas, I don't, I think it was California. It would've been California. It was California. Been California. And you were giving a speech Yeah. Like at Sacramento or a demonstration. Yes. And, and that's how I just was so moved. I think I reached out to you immediately and just said, I, I'd love to be able to, to interview you. So what are you, are you working with an organization? Is there a, a, a group?

Luka Hein  (00:49:45):

Um, I've, I've worked with a few different, like just groups that are, you know, concerned about. This one is a, a parent group called, called Partners for Ethical Care. Mm-hmm. , I've worked with some of their members before. They're sweetest people in the world. They're all like moms and dads who have had experiences essentially in this realm going one way or another, you know, ending positively or negatively. But they have been very supportive and I'm, I'm very lucky to have met the people from there. I've also worked with an organization called Do No Harm. Yeah. Who focuses more on the medical side of things. Um,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:50:25):

I wanna make sure people know. Yeah. These are organizations that are worthy of support.

Luka Hein  (00:50:29):

Mm-hmm. , there are, in terms of like just general talking about like Detransition in healthcare, there is an organization called Gen Spec. Mm-hmm. that has, I haven't personally looked into it, but I believe they help connect Detransition to like counselors or like, they get, they also provide resources. I know that mm-hmm. , I've scrolled through that page before on like, okay, you've taken this step now what? Um, but yeah, those are, I would say the main three that I can think of off the top of my head.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:51:04):

And you, you've spoken before elected officials now mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. and yes. School boards, legislatures,

Luka Hein  (00:51:14):

Mainly just legislatures. Um, I've spoken in Wyoming, Nebraska, Missouri, Kentucky, and Indiana. Um, and you know, when I, when I go there, I, I essentially share my story, um, what happened and how I think that, you know, it's, it's time for the adults in the room to stand up because those who took an oath to do no harm have failed is one of the lines I've used in it before. Um, gonna be real, most stressful experiences of my entire life. Nothing is topping going and doing that . Um, I actually had to stop because my heart issues were getting worse like recently. And I was like, okay, we need to cut back cuz they, my heart issues were getting worse and that much stress, um, on my heart was definitely not good. Right.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:52:06):

Okay.

Luka Hein  (00:52:06):

In, in terms of like dealing with that,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:52:09):

Um, I mean you're 21 years old, this is it, it's hard for adults to do this. Mm-hmm. , it's, that's a lot for you.

Luka Hein  (00:52:15):

Yeah. It's, it's been quite the change. Especially because, um, historically speaking, I was someone who couldn't even give a presentation in front of my high school English class without feeling like I was gonna pass out to the point where I had to just give it to the teacher after class. Um, like it was that bad. And then, you know, I think in this particular case, I just, I've found something that is worth getting over that for, um, you know, it's worth me being anxious and kind of getting over my fear of public speaking. If it means it's actually gonna help,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:52:50):

You're gonna help people. It, it, it may take a while mm-hmm. , but you, and I've never met Chloe, but I've seen her online mm-hmm. and I know there are a couple others who I've seen you guys with. You guys are going to make a difference mm-hmm. . Um, and, and it's okay to take a step back and go, I can't, I can't do this right

Luka Hein  (00:53:11):

Now. And some of us are

Jenny Beth Martin (00:53:12):

And that's okay.

Luka Hein  (00:53:13):

And it also, you know, some of us are doing it for that. It's also like legislative, legislative sessions have also recently are oftentimes coming to a close this time of year too. So Yes, you have that. So it's almost like we all get like somewhat of a little, uh, break from things. But, you know, I, I work during the summer so after, after I'm done here, I'm get to go straight back to that. Um, but it's, it's one of those things where we have all become, I suppose rather good at being like, okay, here are boundaries now we're gonna set this and take the time we need to heal if need be because of the fact that, you know, not only is they say like high stress, high heat issue at the moment, but also cuz most of us are suffering with some sort of health consequence.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:54:04):

Health consequence. And what led you in, at least from your story mm-hmm. , I don't know theirs, but from, from what you've said, led you into to, um, transitioning in the first place there were mental and mm-hmm. and emotional trauma that you were dealing with. So you've gotta make sure that you've learned and those boundaries are important. Yeah. So that you don't, that's part of how you learn how to, to deal with mm-hmm. with those kind of issues.

Luka Hein  (00:54:34):

Yeah. No, no. One of the biggest things I have learned in let's say like the past eight months was just how to say no and mean it, and realize that me saying no has value in me putting up that boundary. Um, and I have, I have essentially phrased it before as I finally like grew a spine and some teeth and learned to not be afraid to bite back a little bit and like stand up, which is something that I was at least in my opinion, is sorely lacking throughout, you know, some of my teenage years. So

Jenny Beth Martin (00:55:08):

It, and, and that's understandable. Mm-hmm. , a lot of teenagers are in that, that position and most don't have, they're not, they're not going through as much as what you, you went through. Yeah. Um, so affirming care, that is a, that is a real problem. Yes. Let's, let's explain that just a little bit more. I asked you, did you have any resistance and you said no, but what kind of laws are being passed that, that are, what does affirming care mean and how serious of a problem is that? Um, the

Luka Hein  (00:55:44):

Affirmation model essentially means that if someone comes in and they say that they are transgender or they think they have, uh, gender dysphoria and they want to transition, you have to essentially take that as at face value and believe them. So even if you know that this person has multiple comorbidities or you know, just had maybe something traumatic happen to them, you cannot suggest that that is the possible cause of these new feelings. You cannot work to the root to see where this gender dysphoria might be coming from. You have to take it on face value and essentially say yes. Uh, you cannot push back. You cannot question that aspect of their quote unquote identity. You just have to go with it. And any pushback against it is, in some places seen as conversion therapy. Um, despite the fact that many of the detransition have talked about, myself included, have talked about how our feelings of gender dysphoria have almost come out of a, like a sense of trauma.

(00:56:42):

Um, you know, you, a lot of us have what would be considered like the, the list of, um, comorbidities. And some of those are, um, the main ones that I I see is like personality as far as like b p d, um, adhd, depression, anxiety, autism, undiagnosed autism is a big one among people who are both transitioning and det transitioning, particularly in this, this younger group now. Um, you know, uh, childhood sexual assault or some sort of, uh, traumatic sexual experience is another one that is sadly common to the point where it makes you realize that we are truly failing, particularly the young women who were not given help that they needed in that and felt the need to escape their body.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:57:31):

And it's not even young women, I mean, we're talking about kids. Yeah.

Luka Hein  (00:57:34):

Kids,

Jenny Beth Martin (00:57:35):

Teenagers, kids. This is

Luka Hein  (00:57:36):

Teenagers.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:57:37):

It's, we're failing our kids. Mm-hmm. ,

Luka Hein  (00:57:40):

Um, I, I guess I phrase it like that in the term that you have when they, they grow up and they realize Oh, I was not right. You know, which is very, very sad. But that was not helped and they weren't protected and, you know, kind of loved through that in a way that they needed. Um, but you, you have like all these comorbidities and under affirming care to even suggest that maybe we, hey, like maybe we need to get to, you know, um, the source of this or like, maybe we need to work through these other issues first cuz they're almost more pressing in some cases. Uh, or maybe, you know, we should screen for things like autism that is not happening. And oftentimes these behaviors or comorbidities are seen as something that if you get put through gender affirming care, it will fix those things.

(00:58:37):

Um, whereas in reality, at least I believe it should be viewed as the other way around. Whereas we're gonna, we're gonna make sure you are essentially, you know, the most stable, the most mentally well you can be. We're gonna screen for all this other stuff because there's a likelihood that if you do that, you're gonna prevent people you know, from detransition. If you do like legitimate care and give people like actual mental health care screen for the things that we know are comorbidities, work through these things, really question and push back and like get to the bottom of these feelings. You would have less det transitioners and I don't think this is appropriate for kids at all, but if they did that you would, you would have less of us.

Jenny Beth Martin (00:59:23):

And I think in California, the model now is affirmative care. You.

Luka Hein  (00:59:27):

Yeah. Oh my. You cannot, you cannot. There are several states now I believe that have

Jenny Beth Martin (00:59:31):

Oregon,

Luka Hein  (00:59:32):

Um, put it into place where you cannot do anything other than the affirmation model. And when you really think about it, the affirmation model isn't specifically in terms of therapy. That's not therapy. Like only telling someone yes. Like that and affirming what they're saying isn't therapy. You know, you're supposed to like actually work through things in therapy and on this issue for some reason. It's only, yes, you are correct in how you are essentially viewing the world. And instead of trying to do what would be typically the case of if the body and mind are unaligned, like that align it changing, like working on the mind to realign it with the reality of the body, instead, um, they take it to the extreme of, okay, no, we're gonna immediately change your body. Which for a mental health issue is an insane deviation from how things have done to the point where the last time we had a drastic physical intervention like that for a mental health problem would've been like lobotomies.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:00:41):

Yeah. Yes.

Luka Hein  (01:00:42):

Um, and I have, you know, there's been some people I know who have referred to, um, essentially referred to these surgeries as like, I can't remember if it was like a gender lobotomy or a sexual lobotomy. One of those two.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:00:56):

That's a good comparison. Mm-hmm. , I mean it's a sad

Luka Hein  (01:01:00):

Comparison. It's a very, no, it's an extremely sad comparison. I believe that was, uh, Richie who made that comparison. But it's, it's very, it's very sad when you come to that realization. Um, cuz you know, we, there are other mental health issues that essentially manifest themselves in not viewing your body in reality. You know, like dysmorphia, anorexia, um, essentially any eating disorder for that matter. Um, and you know, you don't, you don't give an anorexic girl liposuction. I know, um, one of the other detransition who was struggling with both and you know, she went and asked for liposuction and they didn't give that that to her, but they gave her a double mastectomy. Um, and I, I think I, when she first said that in a testimony, I like my, my like jaw almost hit the floor and I almost started crying for her.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:01:58):

Yes.

Luka Hein  (01:01:59):

Um,

Jenny Beth Martin (01:02:00):

I I I I'm kind of reacting that way right now. Yeah.

Luka Hein  (01:02:03):

Just, just cuz the fact that you can see that there are two almost very similar things going on in a in a lot of these, these young people, uh, now being put through this system and you would affirm one but actually treat the other. You would think that that would be enough of like a double think to make someone snap out of it.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:02:27):

Affirmative care. I, I saw polling and I think the Washington Post recently that said that people don't think that that kids should be mm-hmm. transitioning, but they think that affirmative care is good. And I

Luka Hein  (01:02:40):

That's they do not know what it

Jenny Beth Martin (01:02:41):

Means. They don't know what it means. It just sound affirmative, affirming sounds.

Luka Hein  (01:02:45):

We need to start calling it what it is. It is not affirmative care. It is sex changes for children. Um, it is not real therapy. You are not getting to the root of issues. You are affirming someone who is having a problem and instead of helping them through that problem, you are saying no, you are correct in how you are viewing the world through, through the lens of that problem. Um, and then this, this, this leads to the path of okay, you're like sterilization, surgery, uh, um, just everything like that. And it's, it's, we know for, for this, for gender dysphoria, we know if you just leave kids alone, if you do not affirm them, you just leave them alone and let them grow up. Yeah. They, they're gonna struggle. Some of 'em are gonna struggle, but you can help them through that.

(01:03:37):

And we know that upwards of like, I believe it's like upwards of 80, 88%, 90% grow out of these feelings of gender dysphoria. And so the fact that the, the jump now is to immediately medicalize essentially, especially when there's very, very young kids, to almost immediately be like, no, this kid is actually trans. And instead of letting them grow up, um, going through puberty is the biggest cure for gender dysphoria essentially. Um, when your brain kind of balances out, once it gets all those hormones, you know, if there was any other condition that simply waiting it out and growing up have like a 90% success rate in fixing it, we would be hailing that as like, oh my God, this is great. Um, you know, we, we can actually help these people and we don't have to do anything invasive. We can, you know, just things like that. And for some reason on this one, we've now gotten to the point where we are going to stick children on puberty blockers, um, before they even get that chance to grow out of it.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:04:39):

We don't want to eat meat with hormones in it mm-hmm. , but we're putting hormones in the kids. Yeah.

Luka Hein  (01:04:45):

It's, it's all vague. Not even vaguely. It's just straight up unhinged. And also when you look at it specifically with the really this, this is what breaks my heart with the really little kids. It is all based, even, even with older people, it is all based on the most regret, like twisted regressive st like 1950s stereotypes of what it means to be a man or a woman. Cuz you, you see the, these videos of like, oh, well my son, you know, likes to wear his sister's tutu or play with Barbies or likes glitter and likes to like put on mom's makeup or something like that. Um, and before this child can even really comprehend what it means to be a person, like a lot of these kids are at the age where they are, they are still very like ego-centric. Like they're focused on themselves.

(01:05:37):

They don't even really comprehend that other people maybe, um, have feelings and they can interact in that way. Cause that, that's just how child development works. You have the, you have the parents already being like, no, um, my child actually told me that they were trans like three or four years old. Um, and my, my only response to that is, you know, a transgender five-year-old is like a vegan cat. We know who made the decision. It wasn't the cat in that situation. It's, it's to the point where it's gotten its own like nickname almost in these circles where it's, it's called trans housing by proxy as a play on munchhausen by proxy. Um, cuz like I said, you, you see these, like the concept that tomboy is essentially dead in these fears or the concept of just, uh, a boy who likes to maybe play with Barbies or put on, you know, like princess dresses is a sign that that means that that kid is actually trans.

(01:06:34):

And one of the, one of the scary parts is when you listen to particularly older gays and lesbians talk about their childhood or even just tomboys or you know, some straight men as well. Um, when you listen to these people who are older talk about their childhood, they're like, yeah, I would've been put down this path today if this had been like the, the culturals geist when I was going on. They're like, yeah, I was a tomboy. Or you have gay men being like, yeah, I, I loved makeup and princess dresses. And it really is a very, very regressive movement when you look at it like that. Um, some, some people have used the phrase transing the gateway. Cuz when I, when I previously mentioned, um, that giant significant portion of kids that grow out of these issues, a good chunk of them are gonna grow up to be gay or lesbian. And we are making kids permanent medical patients before they even have a concept of who they are, of what it means to be like your body essentially. Um, and we're not even giving them that chance in this medical system right now and that that is what needs to be stopped.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:07:48):

Absolutely. Um, a couple more things and then you, you're from Nebraska. Yes. So when people think this is only happening like in California and Washington and Oregon mm-hmm. , um, but it's not, it's everywhere.

Luka Hein  (01:08:05):

It's, it's happening in every state essentially in the country.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:08:09):

Um, the, the lady who recently came out and I, I guess we could consider her a whistleblower at a hospital. She was

Luka Hein  (01:08:19):

From, uh, Jamie Reed.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:08:20):

She's from Missouri, right? Yes. She's from Missouri. Yeah. That's mm-hmm. . This is the heartland of the country. It is not just on the coast. It's not just in in San Francisco and Seattle and Portland and New York. It's happening everywhere. And, um, it's important that the audience understands that. And one of the things that I, my team and I have decided is that we, we keep seeing everything on, on, in. I I, I suppose a lot of it is who I'm following on Instagram mm-hmm. . But every time I open Instagram, there's, I, I can't scroll very long before I'm seeing some, some something that's the equivalent of Libs of TikTok. Whether it's Libs of TikTok or not. Just showing something that is horrible and awful that is happening to, to kids related to transitioning. And I, I'm, I don't mind seeing it. I think that it's important to be aware mm-hmm.

(01:09:19):

, I, I don't wanna normalize it because both sides are just glorifying it for clicks. And I wanna make sure that I'm figuring out how can I help mm-hmm. and what can I do to empower other people who, who want to help, um, the, the medical community and making sure that they are are doing what, what they should be. Mm-hmm. is the most important and you're 21 and you may not have an answer for this, and it's okay if you don't. Um, if you do though, I think it'd be helpful just to know, um, are what would've been things that maybe your, your parents could have said or that parents can say to kids if they're coming to them talking in these, these terms about transitioning potentially

Luka Hein  (01:10:04):

If you can. Don't let your kids on social media just straight up don't . Um, cuz a lot of this starts with essentially like getting pulled down rabbit holes on social media or having like unfettered internet access. Um, if you're gonna let your kids on social media, monitor them and make sure you know what content they're consuming. Um, you know, another, another big thing is really keeping not only an open line of communication with your children, but really making sure that that relationship is there and it's a like loving, supportive relationship and that they have you as that adult to talk to. So that way no other, um, you're gonna say more predatory adult can kind of weasel their way in there. Cause I know that was something at the time. Um, my parents were just going through a divorce and I felt rather alone and like I, I didn't have anyone. And not to mention you have the entirety of the trans community essentially saying that your parents are gonna hate you, which to a vulnerable young person is a terrifying thought.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:11:07):

Even if they're, uh, even if teenagers and they're angry at their parents mm-hmm. , they still don't, they want everyone wants, wants to be

Luka Hein  (01:11:12):

Loved by their parents. Parents, you still don't want, you know, them to have that reaction. Um, but it is essentially like for parents, the biggest thing is really keeping that communication and then if that comes up, acting on it with love in a very firm way. Um, and that is one thing that this, this movement has really corrupted cuz it is not love to only say yes to someone and affirm them. That's not love. That's enabling. Um, if you actually love someone, you're gonna have to put up those boundaries, even if it's gonna make them mad. And this is one of those cases, um, you know, you, you hear stories about parents who, when their kids started essentially dealing with these issues, they phone went away, different school moved some of them. Um, because you do have the issue now of essentially it spreading around particularly teenage girlfriend groups where they're, they're going to these clinics together essentially.

(01:12:10):

Um, you know, just, just like every other historical social contagion that teenage girls fall prey to. Um, I think the older generation might remember that there was probably a group of girls in your high school that were like, binging and purging together, or I had anorexia. Yes. I know. I, I asked my mom about that and she's like, yeah, I remember that. Um, you know, and they've just been like, okay, we're, we are gonna give you all the love and care you need. I've heard stories of moms who essentially quit their job, uh, switched to homeschool and just took their kid traveling. Um, and we're like, I'm gonna give you actual support and we're gonna work through this together and we are going to really build that strong relationship as a family. And I'm gonna put those boundaries up so you ha can like, relax and finally feel better.

(01:13:04):

Um, I can't remember who was who told me this, but, um, there was a parent I was talking to that was telling me the story of essentially a daughter came home and was dealing with these issues and the mom just went, Hey, we're gonna figure this out. You are okay. We're gonna work through this and we're gonna work through this essentially in a way that's going to actually help you. And by putting those boundaries up, she just said that the, the girl just like relaxed cuz kids need boundaries. They do. That's part of the childhood development. Um, the boundaries change on age, but kids need boundaries and they need ways to healthily push against those boundaries. Um, you know, it's, it's a joke that like teenagers like to rebel, but it is, it is actually like developmentally important that they have boundaries that they can safely push against to kind of explore themselves and really develop.

(01:14:03):

Um, and it is concerning to me that we have begun to take away those boundaries. And in this case, like as a society, we have some of those boundaries. But in this case we have also replaced those boundaries, like the gap where that boundary was of just teens doing, like in hindsight kind of cringy stuff and, um, pushing back against society. Uh, we have not only taken away that healthy boundary, but we have replaced that gap where it once was with an experimental medical industry, which in some ways is worse than if the boundary just didn't exist at all.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:14:43):

Um, that's a, a scary mm-hmm. , it's, it's a scary comparison.

Luka Hein  (01:14:47):

Mm-hmm. , um, cuz kids need that when they develop and not having that at all ages is gonna lead to problems. You know, there's a reason we don't let kids essentially decide their own bedtime or eat whatever they want and they may throw a fit about it and, you know, sometimes you gotta let the toddler throw their tantrum. But staying firm on that boundary is how you grow like healthy, functional adults, um, you know, back in like the, the two thousands dying your hair a weird color like and putting on black makeup and wearing the like rubber bands all over your arms with a band t-shirt and listening to what is seen as like alternative music that would've been pushing against those boundaries. But I don't think any parent went out and legally changed their kids' name to like Ebony Darkness, master of the Ravens or something.

(01:15:46):

Like some of the, some of the names that you see teenagers picking from that time period . Um, I don't, we don't see a lot of like 30 year olds still in that paradigm because they were allowed to have the rebellion. Teenagers just developmentally they will need that. Like I, I know, I know parents really want to be like, no, no, no, my teen is never gonna, you know, never gonna push back against these things. I raised them so well. But to a certain extent, teenagers need, like I said, the healthy boundary to push against to see like they're developing into their own person at that age. And once again, it is very scary that we have not only taken that boundary away, but replaced it with something that's gonna result in sterilization, lifelong health impacts that these kids cannot consent to because their brain isn't fully developed. Like their sense of identity is not fully developed at the time that most of these kids are getting these treatments. Um, which, which is very worrying.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:16:52):

Um, is there anything else that you would wanna say in, in this episode today? And at some point we may mm-hmm. revisit and do another episode. But, but for today,

Luka Hein  (01:17:05):

Um, I guess, I guess specifically one thing I always bring up is that, you know, you see all the legislation going around right now and it is very easy to get like caught up in the, the media whirlwind of it. But at the base, I have never met any of these politicians. I've talked to any of these, you know, these representatives or the parents supporting this or, you know, none of this is coming from a place of hate. It never is. It's coming from a place of wanting to protect kids and protecting that like the magic and the innocence that a child experiences in the world should be essentially the top goal of a healthy society. You know, making sure kids are safe and can thrive and grow up in a healthy society should be top priority. Um, and it's sad that we're to the point we're having to have these conversations.

(01:18:02):

It is sad that, you know, legislation has to get involved. You know, cuz in, in my ideal world, legislators wouldn't have to do this cuz the medical community would've gotten it together enough to actually hold themselves accountable. And it got to the point where they had their chance to do so and they dug their heels in at every turn. Um, you know, it's not coming from a place of hate. It's about protecting kids. And I know it may seem exhausting, seem exhausting seeing this topic come up consistently, but please for the future generations, try not to let yourself get worn out or apathetic about it. Cuz that is my main concern that I see people right now coming up with, well, why should I care? You should care. Because without a safe and protected future generation, it's not gonna end well for any of us when these kids grow up. So

Jenny Beth Martin (01:19:05):

We have to protect our kids. Mm-hmm. , and this is, this is the hill to die on if we to die on it. This is, we this is wrong. What's happening to the kids right now of what happened to you was wrong

Luka Hein  (01:19:19):

Of, of any hill to die on protecting, you know, children's innocence, protecting their future life, liberty and pursuit of happiness really is the hill to die on. If there is one, if any, this is the one to do it with.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:19:37):

Well, I I'm gonna climb the hill with you , so we're gonna, and I think that there are a lot of people across the country right now who wanna know what they can do to help and t pretty patriots action. We're, we're working on assembling the, the tools and resources so we can help the, the everyday grassroots activist mm-hmm. to be able to engage in this. And I don't, it will turn into a left right. Republican Democrat type issue. Mm-hmm. . But it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be be, it shouldn't

Luka Hein  (01:20:07):

Be. I've, I've met, you know, in the media it's getting stereotyped as, oh these are Republican lawmakers. There are particularly like voter wise and like the parents I've met, I feel like the, the majority of like the moms and some of these groups I've, I've to talk with, they're all Democrats. Um, it shouldn't be a left right issue mm-hmm. and do not let them turn it into a left right issue. Cuz the minute protecting kids becomes a left right issue. It is a very worrying level of polarization at that point. Cuz it shouldn't be, like I said, protecting kids in a healthy society is everyone's duty.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:20:49):

That is. Right. And that Washington Post poll that I referenced a, a few minutes ago, the good thing is that the majority of the country thinks that we, this is wrong to do to kids mm-hmm. . And so it, it, I don't know what the, the, um, the political affiliation on that was, but I, I know that neither party has a huge majority mm-hmm. that we're a pretty sharply divided country. So this is, it isn't, and it isn't just about sports, which are very important. Uh, and, and protecting womanhood is important, but also just protecting kids. So we're not allowing doctors to do these things they shouldn't be. Mm-hmm. , extremely important. Um, Luca Hein, thank you so much for, for being with us today and we will continue to, to look for ways to help engage people and to make sure that we are, are advocating to protect kids when it comes to, to this kind of surgery and these kind of medical procedures. Mm-hmm. , thank you. Thank

Luka Hein  (01:21:49):

You.

Narrator (01:21:50):

The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Mooney hand and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.

Jenny Beth Martin (01:22:09):

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