Jenny Beth sits down with former Member of Congress, the Honorable Louie Gohmert. They discuss the impact Louie had on The House of Representatives and the process of choosing a new speaker and about what it was like when he was a college exchange student in the communist Soviet Union.
Jenny Beth sits down with former Member of Congress, the Honorable Louie Gohmert. They discuss the impact Louie had on The House of Representatives and the process of choosing a new speaker and about what it was like when he was a college exchange student in the communist Soviet Union.
Twitter/X: @replouiegohmert | @JennyBethM
Louie Gohmert (00:00:00):
But Doky said The problem with Marxism is not economic. We know that is a problem. But he said The problem with Marxism is atheism. The government has to become God, and that's what our government has become to far too many people.
Narrator (00:00:22):
Keeping our republic is on the line, and it requires Patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author of filmmaker and one of time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she is most proud of is Mom To Her Boy, girl Twins. She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:00:54):
And continuing with our series, celebrating 15 years of the Modern Tea Party movement. It is an absolute honor to introduce my next guest. When he served in Congress, he was the only one that no matter what, would always stand up for what he believed was right, even if it meant he was standing alone. I've rarely met people in my lifetime with this kind of courage and conviction. I would also say that if it weren't for him, we wouldn't currently have a movement conservative as Speaker of the House back in 2013, he was the first one to stand up to Republican leadership and see it was time to move on from John Bayner. He was vocally opposed to Paul Ryan as speaker before anyone else. He has a heart for this country, the size of his home state of Texas. Please welcome my good friend, the Honorable Louis Gomer. I am just so excited to do this interview with you and to talk about things that we've done over the years and then to make sure people know some of the things that I know about you that they may not know You and I got to know each other as we were fighting Obamacare back in 2009 and 10 and 11, 12, 13. It seems to go on forever because
Louie Gohmert (00:02:06):
We still Yeah, and we were supposed to repeal it after that
Jenny Beth Martin (00:02:08):
Too, right? And thanks to McCain, that never happened.
Louie Gohmert (00:02:12):
Actually. It's more thanks to Bayner and
Jenny Beth Martin (00:02:17):
Well, you can elaborate on that. And we opposed speakers of the house and wanted replacements and improvements and speakers of the house. And right now I think we've got a much better speaker than anything during the time that you were in Congress. And I want to talk about some of that. One of the things, speaking of the speaker race is we were watching the votes go on the speaker race in January of 2023. As they went through so many rounds before they finally did approve McCarthy. I was thinking part of the reason they are so successful right now is because the last names of the people opposing it start with B. So you had bigs and you had Bishop, and you had these people early in the alphabet opposing it. And I think that because you had so much courage early in the roll call account, others were
Louie Gohmert (00:03:21):
Willing to, it does make a difference.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:03:22):
Isn't that crazy? That is crazy.
Louie Gohmert (00:03:24):
Well, it's actually going back to 2009 and 10, it appeared we had a decent shot at getting the majority back in November of 2010, not because of anything Republicans had done as under minority leader Baer. We hadn't done much good and our conference chairs Mike Pence, and anyway, we just hadn't really done as a group what we should have. Some of us were standing up, but it wasn't a majority. But we got the majority back because Obamacare was passed in 2010, and that was when you guys got active actually before it passed. And we had a good shot at stopping it, even though we were in the minority, there were Democrats that were really nervous about voting for it, but actually we had a chance of stopping it. The minority party gets to submit a motion to recommit and ask that something be added. And there had been Hispanic caucus that heard we were going to be pushing an amendment or motion to recommit that Obamacare could not be utilized by people that were here in the country illegally.
Louie Gohmert (00:05:02):
And the Hispanic caucus took the position that we're not going to vote for it if that's part of the bill. And so that amendment, that motional recommit had a good chance of passing because there were some Democrats that were probably going to have to vote for it to keep their seats. And Baynard decides back in those days, he was the minority leader, what we would submit as a motion to recommit. And he chose between that he chose another alternative that was a motion to recommit to include tort reform. Well, none of the Democrats had any problem voting against Tor reform because the plaintiff's were their biggest group of donors. And so afterwards, a couple of us were sitting on the floor and one of the Democrats, a friend walked by and said, well, you must be feeling pretty happy now. He said, well, we were really worried there before we found out what the motion to recommit was.
Louie Gohmert (00:06:16):
We thought you were going to go a different way and we weren't sure that we would pass it. But I'd heard Bainer say before, the best thing that could happen for us Republicans politically is if Obamacare passed in the house and didn't pass in the Senate, we'd get the majority back. And so it appeared clear to me that Vayner and some of the establishment were not serious about stopping Obamacare. Anyway, very sad for America. Also, in 2010, there were a group of us that started meeting once a week to talk about who we could come up with that would be a better speaker than John Vayner. And every time we came up with somebody we thought could beat him, somebody from our group would talk to that person and they would say, Hey, I'm going to be chairman of this, that or the other. Vayner already promised me, and I don't think anybody's going to beat Vayner.
Louie Gohmert (00:07:24):
So if you nominate me, I'm going to stand up and immediately withdraw my name. Well, by September, I guess by the end of September, there wasn't anybody that was willing to be nominated that had a chance. It was just really tragic. So in our first conference, Republican members of the house, and it included the newly elected guys, the biggest conservative wave in the House of Representatives in 70, 80 years, something like that. And I was so frustrated I didn't even have a second for anybody. And the night before, I had been trying to think who could I nominate? And in fact, I texted Mark then and I said, Hey, there's nobody in the house that has a chance that I can nominate for speaker. And you remember, you don't have to be a member of Congress to be elected speaker. And he shot back Scott Walker. And I said, I thought about that. But people are saying, if you pull Scott Walker now out of being governor before he finishes doing the things he's trying to do there in his state, then that will all be for nothing. They don't want to lose him and he won't walk away. So I finally, that night thought.
Louie Gohmert (00:09:06):
So I texted New Gingrich and said, Hey, I'd like to nominate you tomorrow for speaker. And I mean immediately his answer came back, that's impractical. And my reaction was, oh, thank you. He didn't say no. So the next day I'm sitting there, I'm sitting on the aisle about two thirds of the way back and there wasn't a second. And here we have all these 70, 80 new members and they're sitting there listening to speeches that Bayner is the best thing since sliced bread. He's the sole reason we got the majority back. If he were in the Senate, the Senate would've gotten their majority back. We owe everything to Bainer. And I'm seeing these guys, the new guys, they're all taking all this in. Wow, this guy's more impressive than we thought. And so a nominating speech, you got three minutes and I'm sitting there seeing these guys taking it all in, and I thought, well, I'm going, Lord, should I just keep my seat?
Louie Gohmert (00:10:25):
And when the final speech for Boor finished and our conference chair said, are there any other nominations, I jumped up and I'm heading down. But he said, are there any other nominations hearing none? I said, Mr. Chairman. And he looked at me with a sad looking like I could see in his face, oh, please don't do this. Please don't do this. And I said, I have a nomination. And in my head I'm thinking, if I say Newt Gingrich's name early on, people will quit listening to me. But I've got three, and I might get three and a half before they yank me off to tell about all the things Vayner promised that were lies didn't happen, broke his word over and over, and all these new guys, they don't know. But if I can lay this stuff out, then as promises are broken, instead of them going, well, that's strange. Bainer is supposed to be the best thing since slice of bread.
Louie Gohmert (00:11:35):
Maybe this is just uncharacteristic. But if I lay out broken promises over the years that he'd been there, then as he broke more promises, they going, that's just what Louis said. So I got up and I started going through broken promises by Bayner, and I pointed out he didn't get us the majority. And in fact, if you will go look at the polling, people are not more trusting of us than they were before. They're just less trusting of Democrats. It's Obamacare that gave us the majority and they expect us to do something about it, but it wasn't. So I laid all that stuff out and then finally I said, okay, you don't have to be a member of Congress. Some of you're not aware, but you don't have to be, be a speaker. And we have a guy that did a great job as speaker got us the first majority back in 40 years, and he made some mistakes, but he's learned from 'em, and I think he'd be a great leader for our party.
Louie Gohmert (00:12:41):
I nominate New Gingrich. Now, I don't have a second, but I need one of you guys. You don't even have to stand up and give a speech. Just say I second. And then five of us need to require a secret ballot, and then we can have a real election for speaker. So would somebody just say, I second? And it not only was quiet, nobody moved. Everybody just froze. And some of the guys told me later I was afraid it was like an auction if I scratched my nose. There was a second right there. No, no. So anyway, so nobody moved, nobody seconded. And finally the conference chair said it, eyes for lack of a second, but Thomas Massey was new. He was part of that group. And he told me a year or so later, he said, I was sitting there and you gave that speech and nominated Newt.
Louie Gohmert (00:13:41):
I leaned over to the freshman next to me and said, this has got to be the craziest guy in all of Congress. But he said, within six months I was saying, this guy's the smartest kind in Congress, but they saw. And so we came very close to having 18 that it appeared we needed if everybody had been there and voted to vote him out in January, 2013, or to at least freeze the vote like happened last year. And we had 21, but Bayner got to four of 'em and got 'em to switch. And then once he got us below 18, we still could have done it. I saw in Ken Buck's book that he said he would've voted to Ous Baer, but it was a lost cause. He had told us he was going to vote with us. We would've had 18, but we had 17. And then once it was clear we weren't going to get to 18, there were some that just went ahead and voted for him just so they'd have a shot at the chairmanship, something like that. So those are the kind of battles we've been fighting over the years.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:15:02):
And then in 20 Sue, 2011, you were the only one. In 2013, there were people who voted against him, so it went from one to more than one, and
Louie Gohmert (00:15:17):
I think there were about 14 that ended up voting for somebody other than Bain.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:15:23):
And Tim Amp was one of those, right? And then he wound up losing a committee.
Louie Gohmert (00:15:27):
Well, 2015 is when we needed 28 or 9, 29 I think if everybody were there and voting. And we had way more than 29 commit that they would vote for somebody other than Bayner. And anyway, Tim actually was keeping track of the votes on his, and somebody in the balcony got a view of his keeping track, but, and it ended up costing Tim. Tim,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:16:07):
They punished him and cost him his seat. And that's right. What we're referring to is he had an iPad, I think, and he had That's right, that's right. His whip count of the people he thought who were with him had a shot. And what he didn't realize is that while he was holding that, or maybe it was a sheet of paper, I thought it was an iPad.
Louie Gohmert (00:16:24):
It was an iPad,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:16:26):
One of the reporters from the gallery zoomed in on it and took a photograph of it and then blasted it out everywhere. Then later in 2015, Mark Meadows did the motion. He did the motion to vacate. Then
Louie Gohmert (00:16:45):
Thomas Massey actually prepared the motion to vacate the chair, and Mark asked if he could file it. It took a lot of courage for Mark. I was not part of the Freedom Caucus. Most of the guys in the Freedom Caucus at that time had voted for Baer. And in fact, he was threatened that if you file this motion to vacate the chair, we're going to throw you out. And anyway, it took courage. But Mark told Thomas he would file it, and he did.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:17:20):
And when he filed it that evening, he called me and told me that he had done it. And because we watched in 2010 and our organization did a freshman orientation, really that idea came about because of you, and probably if the freshmen knew
Louie Gohmert (00:17:40):
It, you remember that orientation you scheduled? Yes, because we realized we've got to get to these freshmen because the speaker sets the orientation for the new members, as you remember. And just, I remember my orientation, it seemed like the thing I heard more than any other line was, the best thing you can do for your country is get reelected. And the first time it was said, I'm thinking, and then later on I'm going, there are times you have to stand up for what's right, even if you're concerned, it might cost you the election. You do what's best for the country. And anyway, that started bothering me, but we realized we need to start briefing these new freshmen. So you set up an orientation, I think it was going to start on Tuesday or Wednesday, and you're going to do it and have a day and a half, seemed like before the official orientation. And as you will recall, Bayner found out and he moved the orientation back, and then you moved it back, and then he moved his back again. And so you set up, the only time was Sunday afternoon and Sunday evening, and he set up an event for the freshmen that they needed to be at for Sunday afternoon. And we only got a handful.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:19:18):
We only had a handful. And you told,
Louie Gohmert (00:19:20):
And we didn't have 'em long enough to do a real orientation. No,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:19:23):
It wound up just
Louie Gohmert (00:19:23):
Being, that was
Jenny Beth Martin (00:19:24):
Basically a luncheon
Louie Gohmert (00:19:25):
Bor again,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:19:31):
That's when I realized, and it happened so quickly, but that's when I realized the fight really is going to be within the Republican party, not the Democrat party. We were fighting Obamacare, and it was easy for them to vote against Obamacare and Block because they were the minority. But I realized that getting anything done was going to be very hard. I didn't know how hard, but I began realizing it. And you told me and Kevin, who works with me, while we were at the Glen Beck event in front of the Lincoln Memorial, you said, you've got to do this orientation. Their orientation is where they really just
Louie Gohmert (00:20:11):
Co, I was so proud and Kevin, folks that made that happen that was going to materially make a difference. And at times, I've wondered if maybe Bayner was a little bit like King Saul, not that he's a great warrior like Saul was, but he was really good at spotting people that were a threat to his position, whether to defeat him or to, and he would co-opt them. And that's what happened. 90% of the time, he would co-opt them and get them to come alongside of him. And then if he couldn't co-opt you, then he would try to destroy you or get you defeated like Tim Amp. Right.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:20:57):
And in 2010, while campaigning was still going on, my co-founder, mark Muckler, went on Neil CTO's show, and Neil CTO pressed him on whether he thought Bayner should be speaker or not. And finally we hadn't taken really an official stance on it, I don't think, as an organization. But finally he just said, no, I don't think it should be Bayner. And he finishes that interview, and less than an hour later, Bayer's office called and canceled a tour, which now knowing what I know about Capital tours, he should be a little bit thankful. But he canceled a tour for Mark's kids on a couple of weeks later. We did our election night party in Washington DC and they were going to be in town. They canceled it and wouldn't do the tour for his kids. They're vicious and petty at the same time.
Louie Gohmert (00:21:48):
Oh yeah, very petty.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:21:49):
You see that then? No, your kids can't have a tour of the capitol. We should have had a tour with you, but
Louie Gohmert (00:21:56):
Oh, and can I explain about the Senate vote with McCain? Yes.
Louie Gohmert (00:22:04):
The bill that was created in the house initially, it wasn't going to get rid of Obamacare. It wasn't, and Paul Ryan had to know that, but they were telling President Trump, yeah, this will get rid of Obamacare. But I read it and it didn't, and it helps that I'd been a litigator, federal state court, been a district judge, been a chief justice before coming to Congress, reading things. I'm reading this, I'm going, this doesn't repeal it. It's going to cement it and make it hard to ever get rid of it. And so that was a real battle. But they came up with an alternative that passed in the house and it wasn't great. It was a little better, but the Senate had a bill that was terrible. And this is the only time in my 18 years in Congress, I had senators calling me saying, we're being told if we will vote for this bill, then it will go to conference with the house bill. But our bill is so bad. Can you promise me that the house will not just pick up our Senate bill and pass it as is? And I said, now I can definitely tell you there are not the votes in the house to pass the Senate bill. But they said, well, we can vote for it if we're certain it'll go to conference and it'll undergo some fixes.
Louie Gohmert (00:23:50):
And McCain, I talked to President Trump about it later. McCain had said he would vote for it. The problem was not so much that he came in and did a thumbs down, it's that he had assured President Trump that he would vote for it. They had some other senators that said they were going to vote against it, but if he just needed one vote, they would go ahead and vote. And he said they had at least three people just let 'em know, we need your vote. And then they would've changed their vote. So it wasn't just that McCain came in and voted thumbs down? No, it was that he did it at the very last minute. So they didn't have time to get with any other senators to get them to change their vote. So he killed that. So there was no chance of any bill getting done.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:24:59):
Just one of the worst things I can think of. I mean, the way that he did it was wrong. And the fact that he was okay with leaving Obamacare in place was wrong. And it just shows he never ever was a conservative. And yet there were those of us. I was one of 'em in 2008, once he became the nominee, trying to help get him elected, and he just pushed us all aside. He couldn't care about anyone who had previously given him any support. Just awful.
Louie Gohmert (00:25:32):
Awful. Well, he and I had a public discourse. I had said after the largest peaceful uprising in the history of the world, some believe it was around 30 million Egyptians, 90 million in Egypt, 30 million came out in the streets to protest against morsey, a Muslim brother who was president, who was discarding their constitution. Now, the Muslim Brotherhood started some violence there to try to make it look like it was the peaceful folks. But he flew over there with Lindsey Graham and at a press conference saying they needed to put more sea back after he was removed. And I made a comment about what poor judgment that was. And then I got hit up, how do you respond to McCain? He said that you were a man of no intelligence. And I said, well, I'll have to see or hear him personally what he said. Well, it turns out that's what he said.
Louie Gohmert (00:26:55):
Lloyd Gomer meant no intelligence. I thought maybe he said I hadn't had the intelligence briefing or something. So then I made the comment that to the fact he didn't know what he was talking about, but if I was a man of no intelligence, then maybe he could do with a little less so that he could have some common sense, something like that. And then I said, I just wish these numb nuts that are criticizing what happened in Egypt. It was a great, wonderful, glorious thing that they would be more understanding, something like that. And then I got, I think Steven Bannon asked me on the radio, so the media's saying You called McCain and numb nuts. And I said, well, I really didn't. And he said, well, do you have an apology? And I said, yes. I should never have used the word numb. Yeah, because I don't know. That's too personal. But anyway,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:28:09):
He just,
Louie Gohmert (00:28:13):
Anyway, it's just
Jenny Beth Martin (00:28:13):
Very frustrating.
Louie Gohmert (00:28:14):
And I don't mean to speak ill of those that are gone, but it's what happened. And there's no use trying to rewrite history after it's done
Jenny Beth Martin (00:28:25):
And we can't rewrite that. And he did what he did and we're all worse off because
Louie Gohmert (00:28:33):
Of it. And the federal government is the repository for medical records, and they look at people's bank records. We know the FBI has done a good bit of that without proper warrant, without probable cause. And I said back in 2010 when Obamacare was going on, someday with the federal government, they've got your banking records. They've got your medical records because of Obamacare, you'll get a letter from the federal government saying, we noticed your cholesterol rate is very high, and we noticed you bought a pound of bacon the other day at the grocery store, so we're going to be raising the cost of your healthcare because you're being irresponsible. That's what you get when you have an Orwellian government. And that's where this has been heading. I've got to say this, for President Obama, he said he would fundamentally transform America, and he really did.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:29:47):
Yeah, he did. He
Louie Gohmert (00:29:50):
Did. Not for the better. No, unless you're a big fan of totalitarian Marxist, Orwellian type governments
Jenny Beth Martin (00:29:57):
And people who are fans of that don't actually understand the real what it's really
Louie Gohmert (00:30:02):
Like. Well, and we see billionaires giving away so much money to try to make this socialist really Marxist, totalitarian trying to make that all happen. And obviously they're brilliant when it comes to making billions of dollars, but they're not very smart. Apparently. They didn't get enough history to know that if we become a Marxist nation, the first thing that happens, they take all of their money, they don't even say thank you. They take all of their money and they either kill 'em or send them to a gulag to a prison. So they're not smart enough to realize that they think they'll be part of that tiny little elite ruling class. And that's not the way it works. Once they take over.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:30:57):
No, because the people who are tyrannical and who want to soak up all that power, they find ways they're not going to allow others who might have power to threaten their power. Well,
Louie Gohmert (00:31:08):
Look at Putin. That's exactly what he did. And when some oligarch with a lot of money, he thinks they may be a threat to him. Well, they disappear or end up dead. They fall off buildings or take poison accidentally or something like that.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:31:29):
Let's go back for a minute to the speaker race. So you had 2011, we talked about 13, then there was 15. And ultimately we wound up not having Baer, not having McCarthy. We defeated McCarthy during that time, and then we wound up with Paul Ryan, and then you fast
Louie Gohmert (00:31:49):
Forward Baer's choice, by the way, right? Some of us were pushing, I thought Daniel Webster, he doesn't vote as conservatively as I did, but Daniel's a good man, first speaker in Florida's legislature since reconstruction, and he was going to be giving the power back to members of Congress that had all been sucked up by the speaker, which is what had happened in 19, well, January of 23, when I think there were 18, something like that, 16 that said no until the speaker agrees to give power back to the committees and members we're not voting for 'em, and they held it up. There were eight votes where they wouldn't vote and they were getting cussed at all kinds of things. But by the ninth vote, the speaker agreed to give power back to the committees and the members. They could make their own decisions without having the speaker's approval.
Louie Gohmert (00:32:55):
But then ever since 23, I guess a hundred years later, that power had gone right back to the speaker and you could tell even Kevin McCarthy was not interested in having power go back. And a great indication of that was every Republican and most of the Democrats knew that what the chief of the Capitol Police told us was true, that there was no evidence from any source that any member of Congress was a threat to another member. Yet she put up metal detectors. Why for the optics to make it look like, oh no, there's all kinds of fear. Well, there was no threat of any member to another member. They didn't need the metal detectors, and so they didn't have one at the speaker's lobby. And there's a restroom right there, and I'd done it before since the metal detectors were put up around the other entrances. Pelosi did it the day I did, came in without being wandered. So I go to the restroom, they watched me go in. It wasn't like a godfather where somebody put a gun in the toilet tank. There are no toilet tanks and they inspect the restrooms. And so I went out, came back in. I'd already been through the metal detector, but I got hit with a $5,000 fine or a couple other guys that got hit with fines to Andrew Clyde.
Louie Gohmert (00:34:34):
But his was intentional and he was wanting to show that this is illegal, unjustified unconstitutional. Well, everybody figured that once we got the majority back, Kevin would not only get rid of the metal detectors, but he would also say, and we're not doing fines, violates the 27th Amendment violates this, that, and the other was no evidence it was needed. Kevin did not want to take that position to say these guys should not have been fined because he liked the idea of the speaker having that kind of power to do whatever he wanted. So he didn't join with us to get rid of the fines. Are they still there today? Yeah, Ken Cuccinelli is our lawyer and the court, it's going up on appeal that the trial court dismissed. But so it's still on appeal, but it would've all gone away if Kevin or if Mike now said, you know what? It's moot because those fines should never have been imposed. Metal shouldn't have been there.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:36:02):
I wonder if anyone has even mentioned it to Speaker Johnson.
Louie Gohmert (00:36:07):
I texted Andrew Clyde who was going to try to meet with him and talk about it, but we will see
Jenny Beth Martin (00:36:21):
And we should see on that and see if anything can be done. I do know that what happened in January of 2023 and then what happened in September of 2023 when they ultimately did get rid of McCarthy, it wouldn't have happened. It may not have happened had you not done what you did in 2011.
Louie Gohmert (00:36:45):
Well, that's what some of the guys, they were trying to make me me feel good. But some of the guys that were making that happen said, you laid the groundwork for this.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:36:53):
You did lay the groundwork for it and because of what you did, they learned from what you did in 2011 and 2013. Then in 2015, they learned lessons from 2013 and the same thing in 2015. And it took
Louie Gohmert (00:37:08):
This time by 2015 that for the first time in the history of Congress, there were actually formal nominations for others that had never happened before. And one of our group, and it may have been Massey, but somebody went to the parliamentarian because we had talked about it after the Democrats nominate a candidate for speaker, the Republicans nominate a candidate for speaker. Then the speaker Pro Timm asks, are there any other nominations? So apparently there's no rule against nominating others. The parliamentarian said, well, yeah, but nobody's ever done it. So in the past we would vote for other people, which you could do, but nobody had been formally nominated. And so Steve King and Daniel Webster was part of it in a number, but the idea was to nominate other people. And some people, the left still reports. Gomer thought he could beat Boer and he got three votes.
Louie Gohmert (00:38:31):
And one of those was, there was one article that was published in Washington that had it, right. My goal was to get 29 people to vote for anybody but Vayner. It has to be a person living. It can't be Mickey Mouse or something like that, or Mickey man who passed away it. People had thought about that. But no, it had to be a living person. And if we could get enough so that he couldn't get it, then we would ask for an emergency conference and then we would get cussed at the conference and say, fine, say what you want. But we're not changing our vote until we agree on a compromised candidate. So that was the goal in 2013 and 20, I'm sorry, 2013 and then 2015. But we got close. But when we got 24, Bayner knew his days were numbered. We were so close, and the first promise he broke, like Kevin did, it was going to be over.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:39:51):
And because we had helped, and I had communicated with you so much in 2011,
Louie Gohmert (00:39:57):
In
Jenny Beth Martin (00:39:59):
20 13, 15 and 17, and then when 2023 happened and people were going, well, what's their end game? They don't have a plan. I said, they do actually right now, their plan is to change the rules. That's what they're trying to do. This is how they're going to be able
Louie Gohmert (00:40:11):
To change the rules. Exactly. Get the power back to members.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:40:14):
Unfortunately, it takes this kind of action for them to get the rules changed.
Louie Gohmert (00:40:18):
I was surprised at some of the people that did not understand that they were
Jenny Beth Martin (00:40:22):
On I and some of them who you actually had been communicating with in previous speaker
Louie Gohmert (00:40:27):
Fights, and they knew
Jenny Beth Martin (00:40:28):
Then in September when ultimately the motion to vacate went all the way to the floor, and McCarthy is no longer speaker, and then it ultimately moves to be Mike Johnson. Well, that's what we had said would play out in 2015 if we'd had enough. So it wasn't a pretty process or
Louie Gohmert (00:40:53):
2013, we were so close
Jenny Beth Martin (00:40:55):
In both of those years. So it played out finally in 2023. And it wasn't a pretty process. It wasn't
Louie Gohmert (00:41:02):
Fun. No, it wasn't at all. It wasn't fun
Jenny Beth Martin (00:41:03):
For anyone, but it helped clean things and show that we're not going to keep doing business as usual. And unfortunately the majority is just so thin in the house that we're not going to get what I want. But I want to just really highlight the fact that you made a difference with that and you helped prepare our organization and me to be able to message to everyone, this is what's happening. This is the strategy. I understand what's happening. Let me explain it to you. You don't get
Louie Gohmert (00:41:43):
It. Lemme explain it to you. Well, in wasn't at 2010 when we said, we need help. Yes, can you get a group and holy cow, you got a group. And they made clear We don't want Obamacare. Those kind of things made a difference and would've stopped it if we had had leadership of any courage at all or that weren't just sold out establishment
Jenny Beth Martin (00:42:09):
Right now. I think that with talking about the fines and Mike Johnson, we should definitely follow up or have Congressman Clyde follow up. I know that in these first a hundred or so days of Mike Johnson being speaker, he's just been drinking out of a fire hose. This may not have even crossed his radar.
Louie Gohmert (00:42:31):
See, I haven't talked to him, so I don't know. I haven't communicated. I don't know if anybody has gotten the message to him, but hopefully it will. And I think Andrew is going to try to make that happen.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:42:49):
One of the things that you did while you were congressman that I saw you doing very often, you had a lot of whistleblowers who would go through your office, explain the whistleblower process and why is it that while you were there, so many wanted to go through your office and they go through Grassley's office so often on the Senate side, what happens with that?
Louie Gohmert (00:43:15):
Well, they have to feel like you will protect their identity. And so yeah, like FBI in 2122, so many FBI agents were complaining, but they knew if word got out, then they would be toast. So we get a lot of information like that, do something with it. And of course the lame stringing media will say, oh, well, if you're not giving names, obviously you just made this up. Didn't make any of her complaints up. They came from people inside. Fortunately, there's conservative media now that will report those kind of things, but it's tough getting the word out to people that only get their news from left wing social media or comedy shows that aren't funny or C-N-N-M-S-N-B-C, whether they're not getting the right story.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:44:28):
And when they come forward, there's a formal process that they go through, right?
Louie Gohmert (00:44:36):
There is. But what we have seen is if it's a conservative whistleblower and they go through that process, then they are alienated and run out of their position. It's only if you're a liberal that hates President Trump that you can go through the official whistleblower and not have adverse consequences, but become a real hero role. Unfortunately, if you're conservative, they run you off. They'll make up an excuse to get rid of you.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:45:17):
And we've seen that happen. I interviewed Steven Friend, who is one of the FBI whistleblowers, and he's no longer with the FBI and the two whistleblowers from the IRS. I think they are still with the IRS, the ones who talked about Hunter Biden. But I watched their testimony and you could tell they were agonized about coming forward and they felt like they had to. And one is clearly not a conservative, and it's crazy that it takes so much bravery to just stand up and say, look, the government's being weaponized against people. We need to,
Louie Gohmert (00:45:59):
Well, specifically with the FBI, and I put this in my little booklet that I emailed or texted Sean Hannity one night, I'm trying to do an expose or an op-ed on Mueller so people understand his background and you don't have people saying, oh, he is the gold standard. Like Lindsey Graham had said, they'll understand this guy has a track record that is not good. And so Ted Stevens US senator from Alaska, he had had improvements to his home and the contractor at one time I recall, he had said, Hey, you're paying too much. And it looked, they watched me like a hawk because I stand up on stuff. So just cash the check, make the money. Well, the FBI got ahold of the contractor and made him change his story with under all kinds of durettes and duress and threats, and we've seen this play out in recent few years.
Louie Gohmert (00:47:19):
They execute a search warrant. They take all of your records, they get all of your bank records. How can you prove anything unless they give you back your records? And they would keep records and not let them have records back. And so they were able to put together a case saying that this contractor made illegal contributions, I think seven or $800,000 allegation, and he was not able to properly defend himself. So he gets convicted week or two before the election, he only lost by a thousand to 2000 votes. They really screwed him over to make sure he didn't go back into office. And after the election he's out. But one of the two FBI agents that was most involved did an affidavit because the guy had a conscience and said, we prevented. We got a guy to testify to something he knew wasn't true. We coerced it, we forced it.
Louie Gohmert (00:48:30):
We didn't allow him to have evidence he should have had. And when the judge found out that they had manufactured this case against Ted Stevens, he threw it out, recommended action against him, against, well, the FBI agent's superior, that was most involved in fabricating the case against Ted Stevens, was moved to a better office and the FBI agent that had a conscience, he was basically run out of the FBI. He was pulled from having any job and all and forced him really out. So a true whistleblower like that, a guy with a conscience that understands we got to do right, we're part of the Justice Department. But you can go clear back there to that election, to that prosecution and see under Mueller things really started changing.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:49:36):
It's just absolutely
Louie Gohmert (00:49:38):
Horrible. It's just gotten worse.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:49:39):
It's just gotten worse.
Louie Gohmert (00:49:40):
So much worse.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:49:41):
Well, they punish the good guys and there's no accountability for the bad guys. And I learned it firsthand as I dealt with the targeting of the Tea Party Patriots. We were targeted and our donors were 10, not 10, six times more likely to be individually audited if they donated to us in the average person. And there is
Louie Gohmert (00:50:04):
No, all of that came out. But because we had gutless leaders then wouldn't allow anything to be done to Lois Lerer or to the director, the IIRS, right? Yeah. They all, anybody involved was not punished. Well, she was supposedly punished by being taken off and put on paid leave. Yeah, give me, and then got a great job as I understand it, I'm sure where it was, but nobody was really punished for that. And as a result, it still goes on because we didn't require consequences to the improper conduct. That's
Jenny Beth Martin (00:50:46):
Right. That's exactly right. If you allow it to go on, then others think that they can get away with it too, and it gets worse and worse and worse. And it has. And that is exactly what has happened
Louie Gohmert (00:50:58):
As a February 1st. I'm senior fellow with the David Horowitz Freedom Center. Very
Jenny Beth Martin (00:51:06):
Good.
Louie Gohmert (00:51:07):
And the IRS has been after David Horowitz Freedom Center. I mean, his background, David's such a brilliant guy. He was a communist. His mother was a communist, daddy was a communist. And he eventually, after the plans, they had to create chaos for the 68 Democratic Convention. He started going, wait a minute, we're pushing some things that are not good. Anyway, he began to see cracks and then converted. There's nobody that's more of a freedom free market guy. And in fact, one of his recent books, and I know David and I think the world of him, but I think in his head, his dad and mom are gone, but he still has arguments. But such a simple thing. He said he was shaving and he looked at his razor and he has five blades in his razor, five blades in a razor, and he can push a button and it vibrates and it's got this smooth, silky stuff around it to make it more comfortable. And he goes, you would never find this razor in a communist country. And he's right. You get one blade, you get one. They're not concerned. But in the United States, up until recent times, you're rewarded for coming up with something more innovative, making things better, making them easier. And that's the beauty of having freedom that we have had until the most recent oppressive administration.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:52:53):
It lived for a brief time in a communist country in
Louie Gohmert (00:52:58):
College, right? College exchange student for a summer in the Soviet Union,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:53:01):
While it was still the Soviet Union
Louie Gohmert (00:53:03):
Between my sophomore and junior year at Texas a and m. Yeah, it was the real Soviet Union. What was that? It was Jenny Beth. Some of those memories still come back some years back when I heard someone say, Hey, these children don't, to the parents, they belong to the state, they belong to us. Oh my gosh. So on a tour, nobody called it daycare back then in the Soviet Union, every mother and dad had a job. And that meant that as soon as the kid could, a matter of weeks, they went to the facility where the state saw to their upbringing and their education, and a director of this daycare center was saying, these children belong to the state. They do not belong to the parents. The parents are temporary caregivers. And she said, and we monitor very, very closely everything the parents tell these children, if they ever say anything inappropriate in a child's presence, we take those children out and they never see 'em again.
Louie Gohmert (00:54:27):
And we give them to more deserving parents. And I thought back at the time, I just got chilled. Oh my gosh, thank God I grew up in America and now I'm seeing that here, people thinking that the government has a more right to the children than their own parents. But I saw a quote recently, Jim Garlow published from AA Hodge who was the head of the Princeton Seminary, and he was saying nothing scared him more than the idea of a government run education where Christian principles are completely ignored. Nothing would bode worse for the country. And I read in the last year or so, a book William F. Buckley wrote on God, a man at Princeton. He wrote it a year, I think after he got out of Princeton. And he was so brilliant. But he makes the point, look, you have a conservative Christian president at Princeton.
Louie Gohmert (00:55:44):
At that time in the fifties, you had a conservative Christian moat for the most part, but certainly pro capitalist president and board of trustees. And in the name of freedom of speech, they kept hiring socialist economic professor, religion professor that was agnostic and made fun of anybody who is Christian. And he points out, yes, we're all for freedom of speech, we're all for freedom of, but when you're running an institution, you have every right to hire people of similar thought processes that you have so that you can train people. And my alma mater, Texas a and m, just read a study about how woke they have become and all the different training and classes that aren't preparing people for anything other than being sensitive to L-G-B-T-Q-R-S stuff. And you are going, wait, this is supposed to be an institution that prepares people for jobs and whatnot. But Buckley saw it back in the fifties, early fifties. He saw that that was going on and it's still going on. And I think we saw riots and all kinds of trouble in the late sixties, early seventies, and the bill errors and those folks, they eventually realized we didn't accomplish anything by blowing things up, killing people, stuff.
Louie Gohmert (00:57:41):
They moved in, got tenure at the universities, started teaching the teachers, and now we have generations that have been taught that socialism, progressivism is a good thing. But Doky back in the 19th century was writing papers disproving the things Marx was saying, because Marx was an idiot. I mean, he didn't foresee unions. He couldn't see a powerful workers middle class that could decide elections. He couldn't see any of that. So why would anybody follow him? Well, they are, but Doky said, the problem with Marxism is not economic. We know that is a problem. But he said, the problem with Marxism is atheism. The government has to become God. And that's what our government has become to far too many people.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:58:47):
It really has. And it fills something in them that they're missing otherwise. And I don't even think they understand that they're missing it. And
Louie Gohmert (00:58:58):
It's, well, that summer I was in the Soviet Union, there were eight Americans allowed in on that. College students allowed in that summer in this program. And when we got to the part of the city stays, we had a trip out to, at that time, it was the only loud Christian seminary, Russian Orthodox. And it was a good bit way outside of Moscow. And it was kind of a walled entity, ancient wall, gorgeous cathedral. But there was a building, wasn't very tall, but it had tall a painting of Lenin's face. And above it, it said linen in Russian and below SMI linen is with us. So we're turning into the gate here at s and the message the government is saying is, you may be going into this little Christian enclave, but remember it's linen who was with us? Well, I'd seen linen. He wasn't with us. I've been in his tomb. He wasn't with us.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:00:20):
That's part of why we have to fight right now and why it's so important that we continue to stand for liberty and for freedom in America. And as a college student, being able to see such a stark contrast in what communism was like and what freedom was like, what we're seeing right now with, I think because the Soviet Union has collapsed and it's gone away now.
Louie Gohmert (01:00:46):
We thought that was the end. Everybody could see it doesn't work and it happened in Venezuela, but still people are saying, well, maybe they just didn't do it right.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:00:57):
And now they can't go there and see it the way that you, I mean, it's not like they were letting a lot of people in. There were only eight Americans who were able to go in, but look at one of the eight. He became a congressman who helped change the speaker of the house. But
Louie Gohmert (01:01:12):
I say something else about that, there were a couple of different times where people would go rushing off, and I would turn to the Soviet College student, I'm going, what's their problem? And it was explained to me this way in your country, you can get ahead by working harder and making more money, that gives you more power. In our country, there's not all that much difference between what people make socialist country. So the only way to get ahead is to step on other people. So we're encouraged to rat out anybody you see doing something inappropriate or that might offend a government official. And that's how you get ahead here. So yes, they'll run, tell on me, and I'll be hauled away. And that will allow them to have some more privileges, more perks recognized. And we're seeing that in America now. People getting ahead thinking the thing to do is to quash, to step on other people and improve their lot in life.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:02:36):
And it's just, it's horrible. And I think that you have the fall of the Soviet Union and Venezuela, you have the socialism and Marxism being taught in schools now instead of critical thinking, you've got critical social justice theory instead of critical thinking. And they come out thinking, oh, socialism isn't so bad. Or A little bit of socialism isn't bad. Pure capitalism is bad. Capitalism is bad. And no way to actually, they have nothing to compare it to. It's the first story. They haven't been taught properly, they haven't been taught. And then there they can't go look inside the Soviet Union because it doesn't exist anymore. And they
Louie Gohmert (01:03:23):
Think that's a bad example. No, that's what happens. It is what happens. And I've had young people say, look, I know socialism is supposed to be bad, but it really sounds like a Christian idea sharing and everybody's sharing and having the same stuff that sounds like a Christian idea. And I said, it sounds that way. But because no human is perfect, everybody has flaws, jealousy takes over and you end up having to have a totalitarian government strong enough to take from people doing the work and strong enough to give to people they want to give to not you grew in charity so that you're blessed and have a wonderful warm feeling for helping people. But the government, and we're seeing that with the Biden administration, they're rewarding our enemies and making them stronger.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:04:34):
It isn't Christian. Christian would be sharing involuntary,
Louie Gohmert (01:04:39):
Voluntary, voluntarily. Yes.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:04:41):
And what happens when the government forces you to do it, it's coercion and tyranny, and that's not sharing voluntarily being forced to, and that's not kind. It's trampling on God-given rights.
Louie Gohmert (01:04:55):
And one of Ayn Rand's books, and I forget which one, but it was about a time when one of the biggest jobs was making candles because there were no electric lights. And these guys came up, they found out that if you combine some chemicals, it gave off light. And they went and showed it to the wisest people that could do something about it. And it was a better light, it was more consistent. And the reaction of the leaders was leaders. But if we do this and use this, what would the candlemakers do? We can't allow this. And that's kind of that socialist mentality. You don't allow people to advance if it causes you to give up any power.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:05:56):
And that's why we fight so hard to make sure that we're standing against those who seek to hold onto power and to help it span freedom in America and our own communities and around the world.
Louie Gohmert (01:06:09):
But the corruption has gotten so widespread in the federal government so widespread. It's a dangerous time. And that's why the election 2024, I'm prayed. If the Democrats win that political corruption in the F-B-I-D-O-J, Homeland Security, Intel Community, DOD, it's there. It's going to be in place and it won't be any coming back.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:06:50):
And that's why people who are listening right now have to be active this year.
Louie Gohmert (01:06:55):
And in Texas, we don't have an attorney general that's going to have people out getting injunctions and stuff against fraud that's found. It's up to the people. People have got to do this. And even though there are fewer Republicans per capita in the big cities, that's where we need them the most to be poll watchers and to be judges, election judges, that we need them involved and reporting things because this election is too important not to make it really secure.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:07:33):
That's exactly right. And our mantra for the year is secure and win, and that's what we have to do. Yeah.
Louie Gohmert (01:07:39):
Got to.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:07:40):
Well, Louis, thank you so much for being with me.
Louie Gohmert (01:07:43):
Jenny Beth, you know I always love being with you. Thank you.
Narrator (01:07:46):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Mohan and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:08:05):
If you like this episode, let me know by hitting the light button or leaving a comment or a five star review. And if you want to be the first to know, every time we drop a new episode, be sure to subscribe and turn on notifications for whichever platform you're listening on. If you do these simple things, it will help the podcast grow, and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.