Jenny Beth sits down with Jack Posobiec at Turning Point Action's Restoring National Confidence Summit in Las Vegas, NV. In this episode, Jack talks about his early years in Norristown, PA, how he got involved in politics, and how he used his training in psychological operations in the Navy to catapult his social media presence and his rapid rise in the America First movement.
Jenny Beth sits down with Jack Posobiec at Turning Point Action's Restoring National Confidence Summit in Las Vegas, NV. In this episode, Jack talks about his early years in Norristown, PA, how he got involved in politics, and how he used his training in psychological operations in the Navy to catapult his social media presence and his rapid rise in the America First movement.
Human Events Daily Podcast: https://humanevents.com/daily/
Twitter/X: @JackPosobiec | @jennybethm
Jack Posobiec (00:00):
The difference now is that when they lie about Trump, we have Tea Party Patriots action. We have real America's voice. We have human events. We have the war room, of course, Charlie, Kirk, Tucker Carlson. We have this ecosystem out there to fight back that didn't exist in the past.
Narrator (00:16):
Keeping our Republic is on the line, and it requires Patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author, a filmmaker, and one of time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she's most proud of is Mom to Her Boy, girl Twins. She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:48):
This episode of the Jenny Beth Show was recorded on Radio Row at Turning Point Actions Restoring National Confidence Summit in Las Vegas. In this episode, I sit down with Jack Poso, a former Navy Intelligence officer and the host of Human Events Daily.
Jack Posobiec (01:04):
Well, Jenny Beth, it's great to be here. And this really is a working lunch because there are so many activists that are at this event that are not just sort of your, it is grassroots, but these are grassroots people who have gotten into the parties throughout counties across the country. The same way that the Tea Party plays the trail for a decade ago when they first started doing this, was actually taking that grassroots energy, that frustration in many cases, anger in so many ways at what the direction of our party has been, the direction of our country is, and saying, how can we do something about this? And so, so many people, and the Tea Party really started this entire movement, which became, of course, the Trump movement became the MAGA movement. It all goes back to that, where this was citizen activists getting involved and then taking over precincts, taking over committees, taking over counties, taking over in some cases, entire states.
Jack Posobiec (01:59):
This has been the outgrowth of that. It's a constant struggle. It's a constant struggle. So it's amazing to see such a talent pool from all around the country that have come here to, we're in Las Vegas, Nevada to discuss what can be done to right the ship at the RNC. From my own background, I'm from Narstown, Pennsylvania originally, so just outside of Philadelphia. Got involved in politics when I was in college at College Republicans in W University. There was like oh 5 0 6, that era, and did a lot of ground operations, politically speaking in that time. Worked on a lot of different campaigns in between.
Jack Posobiec (02:40):
I moved to China, was living over there, living overseas, learning Mandarin, worked for the Chamber of Commerce, came back, joined the US military and the Intel community, so as Navy intel officer, but I would always sort of keep one foot in the political world volunteering on campaigns or getting involved with candidates that I knew back in Pennsylvania. And I always just sort of understood that we had this issue where we would get candidates elected and then nothing seemed to happen, right? Nothing ever seemed to change. We'd fight all this fight and we'd spend all this money and time and would knock on doors and do all the things that we're supposed to do, and the party laid out and they would get into the office and nothing would seem to actually change. And so I became kind of disillusioned with the entire process, and that's really when I decided to go into the military, thought I could serve the country in another way.
Jack Posobiec (03:34):
And then along came Donald Trump in 2016, I guess you could say. Everybody knows the rest of the story. From there, I said, oh, I want to get involved in this again. And so I restarted where I was in politics, and then what we didn't have in the past that we had in 2016 was social media. And so utilizing social media and the skills that I had learned in politics, working those campaigns in the past, and then also learning, using the information warfare tactics that I had learned in Navy intelligence, just really applied all of that to social media and really just sort of came up and blew up on social media in the 2016 election. Had a crossroads. Do you want to keep doing this intel community thing or do you want to go more into politics? And I chose politics. I chose this movement, whatever you want to, it's not politics in the traditional sense.
Jack Posobiec (04:28):
I don't think it really is an American first movement. It's a MAGA movement, and I'm happy with my decision. So growing up in that area, because we were affected by politics in the town where I grew up, the town where I grew up in our town was, and again, it's just outside of Philly, so it follows a lot of that northeast industrial, industrial kind of rust belt sort of arc where we had a great town. The town I grew up in was the town that my father grew up in, was the town that his father grew up in, we're from Poland originally. The house that I grew up in was the house that my father grew up in. It was the exact same house, all that tradition, all that legacy. The church that I was baptized in was the church that my father was baptized in, was the church that his father was baptized in.
Jack Posobiec (05:12):
And so the kids that I played with were the sons and daughters of the children my father played with. And so it was in the two thousands that all of a sudden Section eight started taking over early the nineties, I should say. Section eight started coming in, and the federal government started coming in and rezoning things for bringing in Section eight for pushing a lot of these different programs into the town. Then of course, in the early two thousands, they made it a sanctuary city, and the Democrats decided that would be a good way to help the town out. And so the rise of crime led to a complete destruction of the community, complete absolute destruction of would've been an amazing community. And what can I say? It broke my heart, and I've always kind of wanted to study why did those things happen to our town? Why was it destroyed? Why is it a place? So the street where we lived was a block down from the hospital where I was born, and everything was walkable. Everything was right there, the northeast. Isn't that the
Jenny Beth Martin (06:12):
Ideal community for liberals? Walkable cities?
Jack Posobiec (06:16):
Yeah. Yeah, that's what they said they always want, and we had it. It was great and was, I don't know if it was Republican, but it was a culturally conservative area, very Catholic because it was Poles Irish and Italians was the whole town, and they started again. They started messing with that by bringing in Section eight, prime started getting bad. And just last week, right on the street where I grew up, we had a mass, basically like a gang shooting where they grabbed a guy who had walking out of a house, and these three guys pulled up who were waiting for him, and this is all on camera. They grabbed him and pulled him down to the ground, threw him up against the wall and shot him dead. So it was the street execution and looking at that at me, I'm like, that's literally where I learned to ride my bike watching this video and to see the complete destruction of what had once been an incredible town, and there's nothing special about that town.
Jack Posobiec (07:10):
There were thousands of towns like that in the United States and all across the Northeast, and this is what's been done. And I guess what got me involved in politics is understanding that this was done through government policy to these communities. It was done to break up a lot of those voting blocks. It was done to break up a lot of those economic blocks, and we see it writ large now across the entire country. So realizing that those forces are driven by ideology, driven by money, driven by economics, and by greed in many cases, led me to basically get to where I am and try to find a way to get back to where we used to be in this country.
Jenny Beth Martin (07:50):
You mentioned that you went to China and you learned Mandarin. Why did you decide to do that? I want to give back to that, and
Jack Posobiec (07:56):
Then I have
Jenny Beth Martin (07:57):
A couple more questions because you just
Jack Posobiec (07:58):
Said doesn't quite fit the rest of the story. I suppose.
Jenny Beth Martin (08:00):
My son took Mandarin in high school.
Jack Posobiec (08:02):
Oh, that's wonderful. That's wonderful. No, yeah. So I always interested in international relations and in college, and even back in the two thousands, I realized that I said, boy, China seems to be everywhere when I look at business, there's China. When I look at economics, there's China. When I look at international policy, there's China, and this was right in the wake of nine 11, and everybody that was in international relations was focused on the Middle East and everyone wanted to learn Arabic, and this was the big thing. And I said, yeah, I think that's important for sure. But something about China seemed to me to be this big long-term threat, which could potentially be just absolutely existential for the United States. And I said, I think we can defeat terrorism and radical Islam. I think that's clear how to do that. But this China thing, it's much more complex and it's vastly more important.
Jack Posobiec (09:01):
And so I had an opportunity to do a study abroad when I was still in college. I did that for a couple of weeks. It was like a state department sort of trip. Did that, very interested, decided to then actually do my final semester abroad in China. And then I just stayed, got the job with the Chamber of Commerce, and it was sort of a low level whatever, just at a college thing and was taking Mandarin classes while I was there and ended up staying for about two years and learning about the Chinese system and learning about how it works over there, and basically finding out that when I came back to the United States, this was the big problem. So we always said, if the United States opens to China and the US opens up to China, that will make China more democratic. It'll make them more open society.
Jack Posobiec (09:47):
It'll make them more of a more like us. It would just make them more like us. And the US had tried to do this with Russia in the 1990s, which was just complete and utter disaster. Clintons were just stealing everything with two hands over there. And Yeltsin was too drunk to care or know. So however, what I learned in China was that it actually, it was the opposite effect because it was a one way street, but it was the other way because as we became more involved with China, and as the United States became more in bed with China, we actually became more like them. And when I'm talking of course about at the higher levels, but our elites would come over when I was there and I would see these governors or captains of industry or political leaders come over to China and they'd say, wow.
Jack Posobiec (10:38):
So when you want to build a high-speed rail or a maglev train, you smash the houses, you kick out all the people, the towns, you just get rid of all the towns that are in your way. And then you just build them. And they would say, yeah, it's great. And they became drunk with this level of power, and they'd say, well, what about if the people protest, lock 'em up, just lock 'em up. And social media, freedom of speech, it doesn't exist over there. It totalitarians totalitarian. So you could just do whatever you want. And this from a government perspective, and this planted a seed, I believe in the minds of our elites, that if they could come back to the United States or really the West, it's not just the US because you see it in Canada now. You see it in France, you see it in Germany, you see it in Poland creeping its way in that they are taking this model, this China model, and they'll come through and they'll use fancy phrases like, oh, it's for equality, it's for equity, it's for the climate.
Jack Posobiec (11:35):
It's whatever reason they have to, it's for covid, obviously, as we all know, whatever word they have to say to get it over to you, it doesn't matter. What matters is what they're doing with the power and what their program and their political agenda is for. It's for transforming our very system of not just government, but our way of life, our way of life from the American way, this way of freedom, individualism, innovation, entrepreneurial spirit, pioneering spirit, where we don't even talk about the pioneers anymore. I don't even know if kids get taught about that in school. I teach my kids about it. I know they learn about it, but to me, that was always the American spirit to go out and conquer the wilderness and create something, rise up from nothing and rise up to the stars. And so that was the American spirit that's been destroyed, whereas, and it's replaced with this sort of technocratic, morass of government, centralized power, centralized control, which is certainly communist in many ways, but it's really much more about control of the entire apparatus of a people than any one ideology. It's about direct control. It's about direct power. And we've seen, we've now seen over the last 20 years that the United States has indeed become much, much more like China than it ever has been.
Jenny Beth Martin (12:57):
So you left there and you went into the military, then you took what you knew from information warfare and applied it to social media. What does that mean?
Jack Posobiec (13:06):
Yeah, so it means a lot of things, but a lot of the tactics that the US government, the US Intel community employed using social media in, or just any psychological operation going back to World War ii, employed against adversaries. This was something I realized that could have a very direct application for US politics using social media as a vehicle for this. And so great example early on, people kind of forget this in 2016, that this was actually an issue that the media would never actually show the size of the Trump rallies. It would never show it. It was an, and Trump still kind of makes this joke about how they don't turn the cameras. That's what he's talking about. He's talking about the fact that they won't show the size and scope of the crowds, and this was hidden. They would use this very tight shot and they would only show him and his podium, and they wouldn't show that he was, they
Jenny Beth Martin (14:01):
As a Paul, they'd even try to hide the number of people between them and him, which
Jack Posobiec (14:04):
Just him rather than the, yeah, it's like the shotgun cameras and microphones. And so I would go to these events, or I would go throughout social media and find people who were at the events, and I'd run searches on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter to find who was at the event and compile the photos and put this out publicly and just show that. And I guess the best way to say this is I was running counter information operations to the information operations that the media was running. And so what they were running was psychological operation to make it look like the Trump movement was small the same way they made it like the Tea Party movement look like it was small. Or if one guy shows up with an edgy shirt or something controversial, they'll make that person the face of the entire thing smear everybody.
Jack Posobiec (14:56):
Or as James O'Keefe and others have found, they'll send infiltrators to go in wearing some confederate flag, Nazi flag, whatever it is, somebody in a white hood and say, oh, look, they had the guy, it was there. And then it becomes the CNN headline. And so what I was doing was counter information operations to show people, and you had to show this. This was key. If I had just said, oh, there's a 500 people here, there's a thousand people here, there's 5,000 people here, then that didn't matter. It was showing it through the power of social media and the dissemination power of social media, and then realizing there were so many people that wanted that disintermediation from the mainstream media that that's really one of the things that blew up my account. And by the way, this wasn't, people know me more from the Trump stuff, but I did the same thing with the Hillary rallies too, because they were doing the opposite at the Hillary rallies.
Jack Posobiec (15:47):
They were trying to make it out, like the Hillary rallies were huge, and I was showing that they were small. This also happened again at the RNC, at the DNC, remember the RNC in 2016, which by the way was the last convention that we've actually had. We didn't have one in 2020, remember? So it's been eight years since we've had an actual convention. So I went to that and everybody said that the rally would be violent. They said their RNC convention will be a violent event. There's going to be violence breaking up. Because remember, early on in the Trump campaign, they would say violence. Antifa would show up and attack Trump supporters, and they would say, violence breaks out at Trump rally. It was anti, you would associate, right? So you would associate Trump violence rally, right? Trump rally violence, Trump rally violence just over and over and over.
Jack Posobiec (16:31):
And this is disseminated. And when I say information operations, I've seen that's an information operation. So you're hiding the facts of what Antifa is to make it look like Trump supporters were rallying and I don't know, becoming violent and then going out into the community and attacking people or something. It was ridiculous. And they would shift it to make it look like these Antifa were defending themselves from the Trump supporters, when clearly it's the opposite. So we would show the truth of that, and Antifa became a whole thing on its own, which I was able to infiltrate and spent years documenting and cataloging and just going to their events and finding out who they really were and all of this stuff and testifying against them in court, et cetera. But this was my first kind of brush with them. So then we went to the RNC, we showed no violence whatsoever, and then we were also showing that a lot of these groups, what they were doing was the media would say, oh, look, this group is protesting.
Jack Posobiec (17:31):
And then that group is, so they would say, oh, it's Greenpeace is here, and then rev com, the revolutionary communists are here, and then Antifa here later at night. But what we were able to determine was that it was the same people. They were just going and changing their shirts, and they had this church on the outskirts of Cleveland, and we went to the church and we saw what they were doing. They would show up, go to the cameras, the cameras would rally around them, then they'd go back to the church, they would change, come back, the cameras would rally, and the media was working with them. They knew exactly what was going on. They just said it was a different group. And then the media would say, these were the groups that protested. Meanwhile, it was total media creation then. And then, yeah, one guy showed up because an open carry seat. So one guy showed up with a nine millimeter AR 15, and I mean, the entire media descended on this guy. He just walked around doing nothing. But of course it was, oh my goodness, look at this guy,
Jenny Beth Martin (18:23):
Which you would see in Ohio anyway, but because the media is an east course.
Jack Posobiec (18:29):
And so then I went to Philadelphia, and as I said, I'm from the Philadelphia area, and what happened there was just incredible because on the outskirts of the DNC, okay, I'll put it this way. If you watch the DNC Hillary's coronation, the Wells Fargo Center, of course Wells Fargo, the most corrupt bank in America, you would think that it was this wonderful, glorious event where everyone's cheering her. I think KA Perry performed, and everyone's so excited what they wouldn't show that there were thousands of people outside the DNC walled out with fences, with fencing built, right? Build the wall, right?
Jenny Beth Martin (19:11):
Build the wall.
Jack Posobiec (19:13):
You had Bernie supporters and green party supporters and just this populous left screaming, because what happened on day one of the DNC in 2016 was the release of the first tranche of the WikiLeaks emails. And everybody forgets that the original WikiLeaks emails were not the John Podesta emails. They were the DNC emails. This was Debbie Wasserman Schultz who resigned on day one of the DNC. And the people outside were enraged because what did they find? They found that yes, in fact, Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Donna Brazil were working to rig the primaries for Hillary Clinton against Bernie Sanders, and they were enraged. Media didn't show any of it. The media didn't show a single piece of it. And so I went and using, I've got my cell phone, not this one, but using a cell phone and an internet connection was able to be out there with these crowds showing, and this is key. It wasn't just that I was out there, but I was showing what the media wouldn't show in both elements and countering the media's narratives and doing that counter information operations to be able to prove that, not just show that they were lying, not just say that they were lying, but prove that they were lying. And I think that's really where I found a way to use social media to disintermediate their narratives and the media messaging machine that was coming out.
Jenny Beth Martin (20:36):
That is really fascinating the way that you did that. One of the things that I think has happened that has harmed the media over the last eight years is this, there's so many millions of Americans now who have been to a Trump rally, and when I volunteered and was active in the nineties and in the early two thousands, I'd go to different political campaign events and I would see something, and then I would go and look at it in the news and see that what they wrote in the news is not what I witnessed. It's different, or they're highlighting one thing and they're not showing the whole. And so I realized the news doesn't portray what I'm actually seeing. They've got a spin on it and learned how all of that worked. And if you're politically active in the nineties and 2000, you kind of realized that that's what happened.
Jack Posobiec (21:28):
And this, by the way, this was started of the blogosphere.
Jenny Beth Martin (21:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. And this must started, I had a mommy mock.
Jack Posobiec (21:35):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I know.
Jenny Beth Martin (21:39):
So, okay. I used to read all that stuff. We know that all of that happened and we were aware of it, but then all of a sudden, all these millions of Americans went to Trump rallies, and they weren't political activists who were just everyday Americans like your dad who is seeing the experience that you just talked about with your entire life. And they're going into, what about me? Wait, something's going wrong with the country. And they're showing up because he supported what President Trump was saying, and they're not necessarily activists. They just wanted to be there and see President Trump and be part of it, and eventually went on to be activists. But in 2016, then they go home and they watch the news and they see what the media is reporting, and they're having that same, they're going, that is not what I just witnessed. It's not what I saw. And I think the fact that so many millions of Americans have been to his campaign events and to his rallies and have seen things with their own eyes versus with the media said happened that it has made them, I think that has helped drive the distrust with the media because the average Joe figured it out.
Jack Posobiec (22:43):
One of the biggest accomplishments of the Trump era that I don't think he gets enough credit for, and I would give him credit for this, is as you just say, to diminish and discredit the role of the media in America. And by the way, they did it themselves, right? That's first point, the responsibilities with them. But what he did was reveal it, and he was able to reveal it on this massive scale that you're talking about, not just through the rallies, but then after the rallies, through his administration, taking the term fake news, which was originally, by the way, originally coined to describe people like me who were doing what I was doing. Of course. And Trump came and flipped it around famously to Jim Acosta of CNN and the Washington Post, the Washington Compost, the failing New York Times, and just pushed back so hard that I think most people, and it's not everybody, right, because there's a lot of people out there who still, and unfortunately it's at the local news level now too, where because this junk is still in the system, that at least for some of these brands, the New York Times, CNN and others, that he has really done so much to discredit them in the eyes of the American people, that it's given us a fighting chance.
Jack Posobiec (23:57):
It's really given us a fighting chance, which by the way, I spoke to Roger Stone about this recently when we were talking about Watergate. And I said, and we did this whole thing, and Rogers got this sense that, remember Nixon always said, I never did anything wrong. And Roger will sit there and walk you through how it was that he was sort of set up and very similar to a lot of the things that happened to Trump. But I said to Roger said, well then why did he resign? Why resign? And Roger said, it's simple. We didn't have you guys back then, right? We didn't have these outlets that could show the other side of the deal. We couldn't do the counter operations. So they pick the narrative. Guess what? That was the narrative that stuck because nobody heard anything different. The difference now is that when they lie about Trump, we have Tea Party Patriots action. We have real America's voice, we have human events. We have the post-millennial, we the War room, of course, Charlie Kirk, Tucker Carlson, everyone knows the names. We have all this ecosystem out there to fight back. That didn't exist in the past.
Jenny Beth Martin (25:00):
Yeah, it really didn't. And when I was saying it exposed it for the average person, they're like, there's a disconnect. And then you are highlighting it on social media. Then they're going, wait, yes. What you're saying is what you connected with what they were already seeing. And I think it really has exposed them for who they are. And I've known it since I started going to political rallies back in the nineties, not rallies, but events. And then of course, I experienced it firsthand with the Tea Party movement and the way that they worked to discredit us. And we fought back against it in Andrew Breitbart, man. He helped us fight back against it. But then
Jack Posobiec (25:41):
I got to meet Andrew very briefly at a fundraiser a month before he passed, and it was just amazing. I still have a signed copy of Righteous Indignation, and he made it out to me, and he wrote, keep Up the Fight
Jenny Beth Martin (26:00):
The weekend that Obamacare was signed into law. That's the weekend I met Steve Bannon for the first time. He was at an event that I was organizing, and he's like, oh yeah, you were there with a clipboard. And I'm like, you were there with your cameras. And then that afternoon, Congressman John Lewis and then speaker Nancy Pelosi said, we are racist. And said that people had spit on him and all of this stuff. And Andrew Breitbart came out and said, I will put up a hundred thousand or $200,000 reward for anyone who has any footage to prove that that happened because
Jack Posobiec (26:35):
I remember this.
Jenny Beth Martin (26:36):
And no one ever came forward. And there weren't cameras on phones or the flip cameras that were a separate small device, but those were around in the crowd. Nobody had any footage of it because it didn't happen.
Jack Posobiec (26:48):
But this is the power they used to have. Yes,
Jenny Beth Martin (26:50):
Used to have the power because we didn't have,
Jack Posobiec (26:52):
They could just lie about you
Jenny Beth Martin (26:53):
Phone and the internet where we could stream it the entire time. They were able to get away with that lie.
Jack Posobiec (26:58):
And they still tried to do this every once in a while, but after doing more of this, and absolutely, I had been a fan of Andrew Breitbart back in those days. I saw what he was doing, and then with social media, I saw a new way to kind of, that everyone could do it. And he used to say this, by the way, he used, he used to do this thing where, and I was at some of those CPACs where he spoke and said, hold up. It was a Blackberry back then. Remember that? Hold up your Blackberry. Guess what? You're a journalist now. You all have the power. And then smartphones hadn't quite come online yet, or at least it weren't as widespread as they are now. But I got it. I think I got exactly what he meant. And then of course, what I would do is I would put my packages together and then I'd find larger accounts out there, or Jim hover the gateway pundit, or sometimes even in Breitbart, and just make those connections to say, Hey guys, check this out. I think I got something cool here. And they would say, Hey, yeah, this is great stuff. And you would just work your way up.
Jenny Beth Martin (28:00):
And Jim Hoft mentioning him, I got to know him. I met him FET to Feast for the first time in 2010 when we were doing tea party events around the country on tax day that year. So it was the second year of doing them, and we did it in St. Louis. That was where the main event was. And so I met him and he didn't get to speak when we thought he was, because we always just cram in as many speakers as one, and we create a kind of chaotic environment, but the people love it. Everybody gets a chance to speak. And he was so gracious and waited a long time, and I got to really know him and learn about what he was doing with the site. I had already heard of the site, but I learned about it. And I remember in 2012, I think that's when he said, okay, I think I'm going to be able to leave my job and do this full time. And it was so exciting. We had him come to the national convention that year in 2012 with us, and he went around and recorded and helped us do video and report on things that were happening at the convention. And it was a way for us to sponsor his work and help him a little bit. He is such a, he's a good guy. He's a good friend.
Jack Posobiec (29:13):
Yeah. I wish in many ways that people would, that somebody, if we could find someone maybe like this guy, Walter Isaacson who did the new Elon book, could somebody write a book about all of this, but give it a fair shake, but don't make it a hit piece. It doesn't have to be a puff piece either, but I'd love to see just one book that actually tells the story of how the movement got started. It's like, yeah, I get it. It was a citizen movement. It wasn't perfect, right? Lots of mistakes, lots of problems, lots of wrong turns. That's how it goes when you're building something, when you're creating something. Edison, once they said to him, how many times it take you to invent the light bulb? They said you had over 180 failures. So he said, no, I had one success. I had one success. I built the light bulb I turned, which didn't exist, made hundred 81 times times. But it wasn't those failures. It was all leading to the one success. And that's what matters is you have the success, and so everything else is immaterial. So if you're focusing on all of that, then you're missing the whole point.
Jenny Beth Martin (30:15):
Right? Exactly. Right. Okay, so I want to ask you about issues of the day, but before I do that, is your dad still on that same street or has
Jack Posobiec (30:25):
He moved? No, no. Family's moved. Yeah, we moved. That's still awful. They got out. No, it is. It's really sad. And they still live kind of nearby, but in a couple towns over and yeah, what can I say? It's a raw wound. It's a raw wound. It kind of never goes away. And my dream when I was little wasn't to have some people say, oh, you want to go international speeches and speaking at Turning Point, whatever. It's like, no. My dream was to have a bigger house in the same town, and it still is that dream. That's all I ever wanted was to do well and then still live in our town because it was great. I want that for my kids. And it's very different. And I think that's something that's happened to a lot of people specifically in the Northeast where these communities were just smashed, absolutely smashed. And you're just replaced with either, like I said, the section eight illegal immigrants, refugees go down the list, you go down the list and the crime is absolutely rampant. The homicide rate is insane. The hospital where I was born was completely raised to the ground, doesn't even exist anymore because the company said they couldn't afford to keep it. So now they moved it out of town.
Jack Posobiec (31:46):
It is what it is. It's not any different than a lot of people have that story. But it is something for me that at a very young age learned that this policy government stuff, it matters, right? And I wish we could live in that idyllic world where things never change or things never, of course the progressives say, oh, you just don't like change. Say no, I don't like when you change things that were good into things that were bad,
Jenny Beth Martin (32:12):
Right? Right. Change can be good, but make it better. Not make it worse.
Jack Posobiec (32:16):
Yeah. Change could be great. I mean, technology's great. We could have greater technology, we have better healthcare, better systems. We could be colonizing the stars right now. Those are all positive changes. But no, you guys screwed it up because you wanted to stop locking up people for certain crimes and then instead of progressing as a society, you decided that we were going to try to make everybody equal and follow these completely Karl Marx type type agendas where we're going to just force everyone to be the same thing. And it's ridiculous. It's never worked. Look, the Russians tried it for 80 years and look what happened to them.
Jenny Beth Martin (32:49):
It's horrible. As we move the discussion into current events, there's someone else who is from Philly who's going through a lot right now, who's part of the MAGA movement. Mike Roman,
Jack Posobiec (33:04):
I've known Mike for a minute. He
Jenny Beth Martin (33:06):
Is attorney is doing just amazing work exposing some of the corruption in Atlanta with Fannie Willis and
Jack Posobiec (33:13):
Her. Yeah, so Mike and I, Mike Roman and I first when I mentioned working on those campaigns, so that's really election day operations was something that Mike focused on EDL, and
Jenny Beth Martin (33:22):
He's one of the indicted in Georgia, in Fulton County, Georgia. Yeah,
Jack Posobiec (33:25):
That's right. That's right. And so I met him through those ground operations when it came to your running. So at the end of every ground operation, you conduct your 72 hours operation, and that's going to be your last three days before the election. So that's when you take all of the people that you have identified as your potential pool of voters and then you go and hit 'em again and you say, we need you at the polls. And then your election day operation is of course making sure they can get there. So if people need rides, you've got volunteers for that. And then you've got lawyers like Mike Roman and others at the Philadelphia GOP who that you can take the cases to. And actually I got a election machine impounded in Philly in 2016 because we had some issues with it. So Mike Roman was one of those guys, and he's not the only one.
Jack Posobiec (34:14):
But growing up in that area and then becoming conservative, I think it lends itself a little different because I know the conservative movement and the Republican movement in general, it's more of a southern Midwestern kind of movement. But being from the east coast, being from the northeast and coming out of conservative, what can I say? It produces the type of guy who doesn't take any crap and doesn't take any lip and isn't afraid to fight, isn't afraid to punch back. And I think that's what Trump is in many ways. And people say, oh, I love when people say, oh, I just wish we could get him without the tweets. I guess we should get him to keep his mouth shut. I would say you don't understand. That's part of his very being. You would not have him as the fighter and the counterpuncher that he is if he decided to pull his punches. And when
Jenny Beth Martin (35:05):
Have you ever had, that's fundamental, unfiltered access to what a president thinks. He says,
Jack Posobiec (35:10):
You want to put a filter on the man, a muzzle on that guy would completely destroy and he would never do it. So it's ridiculous. But I would say though, that for a guy like me, a guy like Mike Roman, we're all cut from that cloth. We're all cut from that cloth of, you mess with my boys, we're going to mess with you back. And that's what I see him doing to Fannie Willis right now, by the way. And I got into a little bit of heat earlier at a speech when I was talking today because there are some people here from Georgia and I started saying that it's ridiculous to me that Brian Kemp, the governor of Georgia, shouldn't he be the first guy to walk across the street to the attorney general's office? And when you see what's going on with Fannie Willis, this is the most clear cut Rico violation I've ever seen in my life since John Gotti and say, where's the criminal investigation into finish? And he said, we're going to convene a special blue ribbon committee and they're going to write a report about it. Ridiculous. So what Mike Roman is doing is the job of Brian Kemp to actually fight back and oh, by the way, produce the receipts to where even the left, even the Daily Beast and M-S-N-B-C and some of these other groups are going, yeah, we can't ignore this. This is really bad. And it's all thanks to Mike Roman and people absolutely need to support what he's doing
Jenny Beth Martin (36:28):
And they need to donate to Mike Roman, a hundred percent donated. You need to donate to him. He does have a Gibson go. I have tweeted it out. He's doing amazing work. His work will help all of the people who've been indicted, including President Trump, by the way,
Jack Posobiec (36:42):
Trump devout Catholic. Eight kids,
Jenny Beth Martin (36:44):
Eight children, and he's suffering real financial hardship because of this. I don't think a lot of people are aware of that, but we need to be supporting him. All of the people who are going through this are suffering hardship. I've gone through financial crisis. It was of our own making. It wasn't because of the government being weaponized against us, and I don't wish that financial crisis on anyone, but I sure as heck don't should cruelty on someone who
Jack Posobiec (37:13):
The cruelty is the point
Jenny Beth Martin (37:15):
It cruel is the
Jack Posobiec (37:15):
Punishment, is the point, the punishment, the process is the punishment, right? When Kafka wrote his famous book, the trial in the German version of it, the original German, it's actually called de process Process there, they put you into a deep process. I like the German is perfect for that, right? Because that's what it is. They put you into the process and you're told you have to spend this amount of money and this is your lawyer, and these are the possible avenues of response and avenues of relief to you. And the goal of it, the same way they're doing to President Trump right now at a much larger scale is it drains your resources. It drains your time, it drains your effort, it drains your energy because all the time, that's great. We need to take Vany Willis down and everyone needs to go support micro, but we also need to understand this is part of the Democrat strategy.
Jenny Beth Martin (37:59):
It is, and it will have a chilling effect because people won't step up and take action because it will be afraid that they will have to go through that same process. What you're saying about Brian,
Jack Posobiec (38:08):
Speaking of which, by the way, we've got people in this room right now who were electors and are also facing legal consequences because of that.
Jenny Beth Martin (38:20):
It's one of the things that just makes me the absolute angriest and it it's pure communist. It motivates me more than just about any other issue because I don't know how we prevent the weaponization of government without winning elections to change who
Jack Posobiec (38:37):
Controls the government? I mentioned my wife before, so we met in the DC area, but she was born in the Soviet Union. And so to her, this stuff is very clear. So to her, she doesn't need any explanation. She said, oh yeah, yeah, I've seen this movie before when they raided Mar-a-Lago. She goes, oh, yep, I know what comes next. And now there's going to be some kind of corruption charge, and then there's going to be some kind of show trial, and then he's going to be found guilty and you never hear of him again. And she's like in that part of the world, Eastern Europe or some of these places, the Balkans, this Georgia Ukraine, by the way, I know we're not allowed to say that anymore, but actually this is old hat in Ukraine. That's exactly what they do. Locking up people. They just locked up the prime minister of Pakistan for 10 years on some bogus corruption charge.
Jack Posobiec (39:23):
And so the same thing they're doing, and it's to all your supporters. It's a basic classic communist political purge. And just because there's different names on it, just because there's different arguments. What I always say when you're dealing with communists, never listen to what they say. Just look at what they do. So the words are window dressing. The words are absolute window dressing. What they do is they're charging you, they're locking up patriots. They're doing this obviously over to the J Sixers as well. The goal is to lock up Patriots. The goal is to criminalize being a patriot. The goal is locking up the political opposition. And it's actually happening right now in America.
Jenny Beth Martin (40:00):
If people who are listening to this, we're recording it in January, it's probably going to come out in February. The chances of Trump being found guilty before election day I think are pretty good, of course. And I think that we all need to be prepared for that and to understand that that may happen and be ready to just keep working to win the election. Because
Jack Posobiec (40:20):
You don't get a not guilty verdict in a show trial. No, don't.
Jenny Beth Martin (40:22):
You don't. And in Washington DC there's no way he's not going to be found guilty.
Jack Posobiec (40:26):
And this is what people need to understand that these are show trials with my sort of analyst hat on. I would throw out that potentially the case, the Mar-a-Lago case, which is being brought in Miami. I do think that just because of the jury pool down there, I think, look, you got a lot of Cubans down in that area, and those Cubans were people who they themselves or their descendants fled from Castro. You also, by the way, have Venezuelans in that part of Florida that have fled from Chavez and Maduro. And boy, they do not like Cho trials in communism. And so when they see what's going on, they're very familiar with it because this is the thing that happened to their families. This is the thing that happened to their, that's why they're here, their businesses, that's why they're here. And so I guess I was joking around on the podcast on human events that I was saying that if we get one of those based Cubans on the jury, then you'll just get to one of these guys who goes up and says, no, I'm not going to vote. I'm guilty. It only takes
Jenny Beth Martin (41:27):
One in a criminal trial.
Jack Posobiec (41:28):
I'm not guilty. It only takes one in a criminal trial. So you could hang that jury. One of those guys gets on the jury, that jury at, well, he could totally hang up the entire thing. So that could possibly happen. But yes, to your point, I think DC and New York, no, it's a fe of complete. That being said, the president's legal team has been more successful than I think a lot of people realize because in the appeals that they're making to the Supreme Court presidential immunity and some of the other ones that have yet to come out, what they're actually doing is they know they're not going to win in court. So the goal is to delay the trial past the election. They're making good constitutional points in these appeals. They wouldn't be going up to the Supreme Court if they didn't because the Supreme Court realizes that in many of these instances, these are direct separation of powers issues.
Jack Posobiec (42:17):
When you've got an executive branch, you've got executive branch issues, you've got legislative issues, judicial issues, guess what? Those are the exact type of things the Supreme Court is required to rule on. And so when he's making constitutional claims based on, again, the direct articles and the powers of the executive laid out an Article two of the Constitution, these are things that the Supreme Court can't ignore. And so I would say the real goal, their legal goal, and sorry guys to say this publicly, but it seems like to me the real goal is to delay these cases as much as possible so that by the time that they actually do get seated, he's already president.
Jenny Beth Martin (42:57):
That makes a lot of sense. And I hope that they continue to make very good sound constitutional arguments. I'm from Georgia and the things we were saying about the governor, Brian Kemp, I appreciate so much the fact that he reopened Georgia, and I think a lot of Georgians do, and I think that's largely why he got reelected in Georgia. What
Jack Posobiec (43:23):
I would also throw out, by the way, and I said this earlier, Brian Kemp has been the best governor in Georgia, or excuse me, the best governor in America when it comes to Antifa, what he's done to roll up those networks at that stop cop city thing, going after the financiers, going after the money launderers, going after these crooked lawyers. It's incredible. I wish we could copy that and clone it to every single governor in the country. It's amazing.
Jenny Beth Martin (43:46):
It is. It really is. And when they were attacking in Atlanta back in 2020 even, you had the governor and you had Martin Luther King Jrs children coming out together telling people to stop and that this was not going to happen in Atlanta. So there are some interesting dynamics that have happened, and I think that it's earned a lot of mainstream voters respect what's going on with these indictments. I joined Colton Moore and Charlies Bird, a state senator and a state rep who were calling for the impeachment of Fannie Willis, and they were calling for it immediately after the indictments happened. I spoke at a press conference with them. They were right to do that. The whole commission or committee or whatever it is called that the legislature is set up to review judicial people, you don't have to do that. No, you don't have to do it because the state constitution already empowers the state legislature to do that through impeachment.
Jack Posobiec (44:49):
It's they're trying to sell you a song and dance. They're trying to sell you a song and
Jenny Beth Martin (44:52):
Dance. They're trying to advocate the responsibility and power. They don't want to make the decision. So they're going to say, we'll have an elected board over, I mean a non-elective board over here, and they can decide something or not decide something in mead and present a report
Jack Posobiec (45:04):
What Mike Roman has presented for these documents, which by the way are substantiated in, and this is sort of the tangled web of it where it's Mike Roman's documents that are substantiated in the divorce case of Fannie Willis's lover that she hired. Now we're going full Jerry Springer, right? Our fault is our fault. We're
Jenny Beth Martin (45:28):
Just supporting names
Jack Posobiec (45:30):
Our, so the case which is unsealed where they were trying to get unsealed, it was unsealed in the divorce case against again the lover Nathan Ward, who was hired in a very obvious kickback scheme whereby, and this is what people need to understand how they say, well, how does that inf affect the indictments? How does that, because it's very clear in order to try all of these people at once, she learned that she could request more money from the state government, from the taxpayers of Georgia for the more people she indicted. And she realized that the pot of money would be bigger if the indictments were enlarged. So what did she do? She indict as many people as possible, takes the money, hires her boyfriend, her secret boyfriend to be a lawyer, pays him a ton of money again. And by the way, this hasn't fully come out yet, but Romans even has indications in his documents that some of this was covid funds that were sitting out. That means it's federal money. That means it's should
Jenny Beth Martin (46:31):
Have been calling that money back, by the
Jack Posobiec (46:33):
Way, we should have been. But by the way, that also means it's a federal felony now because if you're abusing federal tax funds, that's FBI
Jack Posobiec (46:44):
Because now you've committed federal crimes and then is going and spending it in Napa Valley and Norwegian cruise lines, and she's going to the Caribbean, she's going to Australia. And I'm like, there's no way. There's no way you could actually have something like this. And it's just the most obvious Rico case I've ever seen. The misappropriation of funds. And because it's federal funds, obviously the FBI should be getting to, I don't think they're going to under married garland, but I would also think that a Republican governor and a Republican AG like Ag Carr in Georgia would clearly see the probable cause to open up a criminal case.
Jenny Beth Martin (47:20):
Ag Carr should have been looking into some of this. He had the power to go ahead and look into
Jack Posobiec (47:24):
It. He's all the power he needs,
Jenny Beth Martin (47:25):
And he is a statewide
Jack Posobiec (47:26):
Elected it. It's Biden says the power, he a deal to look at the border. You're the president.
Jenny Beth Martin (47:32):
One thing I think that Kemp would say, whether we agree with it or not, there is an underlying principle that I think that he would say, and that is he tries very hard as governor not to accumulate more power. And he did that during Covid and he did that during the election. And I think he's done that. Now. We can say, well, we want him to act and we can have a legitimate debate on that, but he's going to come back and say, I'm doing this from a constitutionally limited government principle. I'm putting words in his mouth, but I've spoken with him. So this
Jack Posobiec (48:06):
Is a
Jenny Beth Martin (48:07):
Occasionally,
Jack Posobiec (48:08):
Yeah, this is sort of like an old right versus new right kind of disagreement. And I'm on the other side of that.
Jenny Beth Martin (48:16):
And I think those are legit debates
Jack Posobiec (48:17):
To No, I get what you're saying.
Jenny Beth Martin (48:19):
To have to, the attorney general doesn't have the same,
Jack Posobiec (48:22):
General obviously doesn't have that issue. And where I would come in and say, and this is something where it's not just a Trump thing. Even DeSantis agrees with this as well. If one side of the government is weaponizing the power of the state against the other side, and then the other side says, step back, we're just going to step back because we don't want to abuse our power. Which side do you think is going to win
Jenny Beth Martin (48:45):
The side that's abusing the power is going to win. Course.
Jack Posobiec (48:48):
You've got to be able, I'm not even talking about using power. I'm saying go after the people who are abusing
Jenny Beth Martin (48:51):
The power balance of abuse of power.
Jack Posobiec (48:52):
So it's basic game theory. It's basic game theory. If one side has decided to use state power and the other side doesn't, out of principle, I applaud your principle, but you are going to be the gulags right next to us.
Jenny Beth Martin (49:06):
And I completely agree with that. So I'm presenting what I think some of his thinking might be. I haven't spoke to him on it directly,
Jack Posobiec (49:15):
But I'm just saying that we took some time out this past Christmas over the Christmas break and we did a deep dive on communist uprisings all throughout the world. We looked at the Russian Revolution, the Bolsheviks, the Chinese Revolution. We looked at Spain, the Spanish Civil War, which was a communist uprising that lost one of the only ones that lost, by the way. And we looked, kind of talked about the sixties in America, how that was a real leftist uprising. And France, we talked about the French Revolution, which is sort of a proto Marxist revolution. And one of the things that we noticed that all along, particularly in Russia, was that people kept saying this same line of thinking over and over, well, I don't want to go too far. I don't want to be accused of putting my finger on the scale. I don't want to be unfair.
Jack Posobiec (50:03):
And the guys on the other side are just saying, great, we're going to line you up against the wall. We all know what happened to the Romanoff family, including the children we're just murdered, just straight up murdered a complete act of cold-blooded murder to them and the children. And it got to the point where everybody was being sent to jail. And so I guess my point is that, look, governor, I've seen the, that you can act against Antifa when you want to. And it's incredible and I love it. I'm just asking for just 1% of that be used against the Democrats
Jenny Beth Martin (50:36):
And every single penny that any of the people who are indicted have had to spend out of their own personal funds. And I think some of them are losing their homes and running into serious financial consequences, but every single penny is one penny too much because they never should have had to spend that money to fight back against an unjust government weaponization against them all in an effort to get President Trump unjustly in the first place. It is tyrannical. It is evil. And if you don't stand up the tyranny, tyranny keeps pushing. It goes until someone pushes back against it, it's going to keep
Jack Posobiec (51:13):
Going. I had some of, I guess the people you're talking about in my speech earlier today is there some of the Brian Kemp fans who were got very defensive about him when I brought him up. And I talked about, by the way, the Georgia unit that was hit in
Jenny Beth Martin (51:30):
For my run
Jack Posobiec (51:31):
In Jordan, I'm trying to Georgia Jordan, that was hit in Jordan. And I said, look, these things have consequences. And I get that you're saying, oh, I'm standing on principle. But you're standing on principle while people are coming home in body bags, you're standing on principle while people are getting locked and losing their houses, you're standing on principle while people are losing everything. And so if there's a communist uprising around happening all around you and you do nothing because that is your principle, well, if your principal causes you to lose, maybe it's not a good principle.
Jenny Beth Martin (52:04):
Yeah, I think that you're exactly right with that. I think you should
Jack Posobiec (52:10):
Be. They did not like me saying that, by the way.
Jenny Beth Martin (52:14):
It's
Jack Posobiec (52:14):
Tough to think the video is going viral now.
Jenny Beth Martin (52:17):
It probably is. And you can respect. Here's one other thing that I think can happen. You can like somebody as a person, and you can also have respectful disagreements with them on policies and their actions. So it doesn't mean that you hate them. It just means look, pay attention to what's going on. When you do the right thing, like with Antifa or reopening, we're going to see him with you and support
Jack Posobiec (52:40):
You do the thing. That's all we want, the do the right thing
Jenny Beth Martin (52:43):
Doing
Jack Posobiec (52:43):
It. If you're not saying you're in the primary to these anti-Trump candidates, guys, what are you doing? Right? I don't think you're bad people. Just do the right thing. Just endorse the guy who's going to win. Unite the party and let's move forward and let's not waste the money. Let's not waste the time. Let's not waste the effort. Why are we doing this? This is money that could be used for ballot operations. This is money that could be. This is what the whole point of the event here is. Ballot operations, chase the ballots, identifying voters, identifying low propensity voters, reaching out to them, converting them into, but all the things that we should be doing as a movement, but we can't do because we're stymied dealing with Fannie Willis and her crooked Loverboy.
Jenny Beth Martin (53:20):
Right, exactly. We have a lot of work to do between now and November. Indeed. And we can't rely on the people who aren't taking action to take action. We have to look in the mirror and do it ourselves.
Jack Posobiec (53:30):
A hundred percent.
Jenny Beth Martin (53:31):
So when you look towards November, are you feeling a little bit optimistic, unsure, pessimistic?
Jack Posobiec (53:39):
I mean, I read the president when he says, fight like your 20 point sound, and I say that as an Eagles fan, or it used to be a 20 point sound that you need to look at the situation, but you also need to understand things that are going in in your favor. And I guess I would say the main thing that I've noticed anecdotally that's different this time around is that it kind of goes back to what we were saying about the proliferation of freedom must speech, social media. The fact that that Elon buying Twitter in, I guess it was 2022 now, so going on almost, I just think he crossed the one year. So we're in the second year of it, that it's had this cascading effect where people are just speaking more freely now and people are willing to call out things as being lies where people are calling out DEI and affirmative action for these race quotas. And in places, places where it might matter, like, oh, I don't know the FAA or the pilots or surgeons. I don't want someone there because they fit a quota. I want them to be there because they're the best at flying my airplane
Jenny Beth Martin (54:53):
And assembling it and maintaining it mechanic. And
Jack Posobiec (54:55):
I know all the pieces
Jenny Beth Martin (54:56):
Of it. I know all of it. Yeah. Every time I get in that plane, which happens several times a week, I want to know that they are qualified.
Jack Posobiec (55:03):
That's the best of the best. And I think it's in a shockwave through society and all of us in a shockwave, but the idea that we now have the ability to actually speak out on these things is huge. And so you're seeing more voices to it. And I've just anecdotally heard this from more people that in my circle or other circles, just sort of as I said, saying things that it used to be just me running my Twitter account in 2016 was saying. And when you see that in more and more places, it really makes you think that, okay, this is why, I'll put it this way. Do the Democrats really act? Do they seem like they're acting right now as if they're about to win? Or do they seem scared? They seem scared, they seem terrified if the propaganda would not be necessary, if the situation were hopeless. And so the propaganda, the lawfare, the hard power, I don't like it. It sucks. But you know what? They wouldn't be doing that if they didn't think they had to,
Jenny Beth Martin (56:01):
If they didn't feel a threat. So we just keep standing strong and doing what we must to win and to secure elections.
Jack Posobiec (56:09):
Look, like I said, I, I'm with Mike Roman on this. All I know how to do is punch back, so I'm just going to keep doing that.
Jenny Beth Martin (56:16):
Very good. And everyone should. Thank you so much for joining me today,
Jack Posobiec (56:19):
Jack. Amen. God bless Jenny Beth.
Narrator (56:21):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Han and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.
Jenny Beth Martin (56:40):
If you like this episode, let me know by hitting the light button or leaving a comment or a five star review. And if you want to be the first to know, every time we drop a new episode, be sure to subscribe and turn on notifications for whichever platform you're listening on. If you do these simple things, it will help the podcast grow and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.