In this Sunday bonus devotional, Global Methodist Minister Joel Mooneyhan joins Jenny Beth Martin to launch a four-part series, For God and Country. In this first episode, Joel explores the deeper meaning of Revelation 21:5 — “Behold, I am making all things new” — reminding believers that Christ’s message is one of hope, not fear. Discover what it means to live as citizens of God’s kingdom in a divided world, and how faith can renew our nation, our communities, and our hearts.
In this Sunday bonus devotional, Global Methodist Minister Joel Mooneyhan joins Jenny Beth Martin to launch a four-part series, For God and Country. In this first episode, Joel explores the deeper meaning of Revelation 21:5 — “Behold, I am making all things new” — reminding believers that Christ’s message is one of hope, not fear. Discover what it means to live as citizens of God’s kingdom in a divided world, and how faith can renew our nation, our communities, and our hearts.
Instagram: @southernreverend | @jennybethm
Website: www.joelfromatlanta.com
Narrator (00:14):
Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:18):
Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show. I'm Jenny Beth Martin, and in November we're shaking things up a bit. On Sundays we're going to do a bonus pod where we are doing a devotional and we're joined by a very special pastor today. And that pastor is actually my youngest brother, Joel Han. Joel went to Asbury Seminary for his master in Divinity. He is an ordained global Methodist minister and he's going to be leading us in a devotional each Sunday in the month of November. Joel, thank you so much for joining
Joel Mooneyhan (00:52):
Us. Thanks for having me.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:53):
And we're calling, calling this bonus pod for God and Country.
Joel Mooneyhan (00:56):
I think it's a good name.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:57):
You came up with the name.
Joel Mooneyhan (00:58):
I did, I did. Kevin and I worked on that a little bit and thought that would be a good way to kind of encompass what we were going for, what it means to live as Christian people in the world, and how that impacts how we do our community, how we do our politics, how we think about how we're relating to people. And we thought that would be a good way to start that conversation and kind of build a foundation for other people to have that same conversation with you later on down the road.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:29):
Very good. So we're going to do a four-part devotion, a four week devotional series, one episode a week. One lesson a week.
Joel Mooneyhan (01:41):
Yeah.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:41):
So Joel, why don't I just kick it over to you and you get us going.
Joel Mooneyhan (01:45):
Alright, well I'm happy to be here. I think it's going to be a good time for us for the next couple of weeks. So when I was thinking through how to approach a devotional series, especially in an otherwise political podcast, I was thinking about what it means as Christians to live in the moment that we're in as a nation, as a church, as people in the world where the world is very divided. We're in a world where people are obsessed with all different forms of identity, all different forms of citizenship, all different forms of who we are as people and how we relate to one another. And got me thinking about what does it mean to think of ourselves as citizens of the kingdom of Christ and how might that cause us to live and speak and interact in the world differently than we are doing right now.
(02:49):
And so I want to talk about that over the next few weeks. Forewarning that it might get a little uncomfortable sometimes are meant to lift you up and inspire you. And sometimes devotionals are meant to kick you in the pants and get you to think about things a little differently. And so that's kind of where this is leaning. But I think that when it's over people will, my prayer is that it will be meaningful and inspirational and it will be something that will embolden people to live out their citizenship as people who belong to Christ before anything else. And in doing so, seeing the world around and change. But before we get started, I do think it'd be a good idea to open each one in prayer. I'm then close each one in prayer. So if you wouldn't mind, we'll start with that. And so let's pray and wherever you are, I invite you to pray along with me.
(03:43):
So heavenly Father, we are thankful that you have brought us here to this place to think about your word, think about your teachings, and to think about what it means to be your people in the world and in the nation that we find ourselves in. So in these moments, we know that you're with us. We don't ask for your presence because we know that you're here, but we do ask that you reveal yourself through our conversation that other people will hear your word and your truth above all else. If there's anything in our conversation that gets in the way of that, we pray that you would move in spite of us, but our prayer is that you'll be moving in light of us as well. And so we thank you for this time and we are excited to see where this takes us. We pray these things in Christ's name.
(04:30):
Amen. Okay, so strange place to start, but we're going to start with a passage from the Book of Revelation. Now, I've found in my time doing ministry with people that revelation is the most misunderstood book of the Bible. I think most people would agree with that. When I'm talking with people about how to read the Bible and where best place to start, my joke is that you just don't read revelation at all, not for a very, very, very long time. Because what ends up happening is that people look at it through particular lenses and end up going into some pretty dark places, especially if you don't have a lot of really good information to help guide you through what's actually happening. It is very mysterious. There's a lot of imagery that we don't quite understand, but there is good research out there to kind of help you navigate it.
(05:31):
So until you're prepared to really go through that, I tell people, don't go into it yet. But having said all of that, it's strange and it's mysterious. And I was actually just talking with a pastor who was telling me that he had just had a conversation with somebody who'd come up to him explaining all these really strange and dark conspiracy theories that he wanted to explain to him and how it's all in the book of Revelation and all this stuff. It's not, it just isn't. The book of Revelation was written to a particular people in a particular time using symbols and imagery they would understand. Now, like I said, there are ways that we can understand it. The meaning of those symbols is not hidden, it's not esoteric. It's something that's there. We know it from historical research and all of that. The way I like to think of it is, let's say that I were to show you a picture of a donkey and an elephant in a boxing ring with the year 2024 on a banner over top of it immediately that brings to mind
Jenny Beth Martin (06:46):
Republican and Democrat. And for me, I'm thinking of the presidential election.
Joel Mooneyhan (06:50):
So that's something that we see it, we know what it means. Let's take some numbers. Nine 11, 2001,
Jenny Beth Martin (06:57):
The terrorist attacks in the World Trade Center and the Pentagon,
Joel Mooneyhan (07:00):
And then you've got 11 22 63.
Jenny Beth Martin (07:03):
That would be the JFK assassination,
Joel Mooneyhan (07:05):
Right? And then 12 7 41
Jenny Beth Martin (07:08):
Pearl Harbor.
Joel Mooneyhan (07:09):
Yeah. Okay, so shifting gears from numbers, there are a series of letters in our culture that we immediately think of certain people. So if I say FDR, we think of Franklin de JFK,
Jenny Beth Martin (07:24):
John Kennedy,
Joel Mooneyhan (07:25):
LBJ,
Jenny Beth Martin (07:26):
Lyndon b Johnson,
Joel Mooneyhan (07:28):
MLK,
Jenny Beth Martin (07:29):
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Joel Mooneyhan (07:30):
And regrettably, now we can think of CK
Jenny Beth Martin (07:34):
Currently.
Joel Mooneyhan (07:35):
And so there are certain images and numbers and letters that we know about because we live in this time and in this place 2000 years from now, somebody might dig up a newspaper article and see that picture of a donkey and an elephant and wonder what our strange obsession was with animals fighting in a boxing ring. Unless they were really astute students of American history, they may not understand what that meant and they might extrapolate a lot of meanings that were not intended by the person who drew a political cartoon like that. My point is the same thing is happening in the book of Revelation. So John is using a lot of very specific symbols and a lot of very specific imagery that his audience will understand. Now. He's writing from the island of Patmos, his correspondence is going to be screened. And so he's trying to send a message to the faithful Christians in the Roman Empire without tipping his hand so that anyone who would try to suppress his message would know what he's talking about. So it doesn't make sense to anybody who doesn't know what it is, but to the Christians who are reading it, all of the names, all of the numbers, all of the strange creatures, he's not into the future and seeing something that he doesn't understand. He's looking into the present and drawing symbols in to help his people, his listeners or his audience understand some things about what they're going through
Jenny Beth Martin (09:09):
Right now in today's world in the last few years regarding COVID, there are plenty of people online that if history comes back and looks, they're going to see that there are a bunch of people who are talking about COVID vaccines, but they couldn't talk about it. They would get censored and they'd say something like the medication or the shot or if they were talking about hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin, they would say things like the medicine, the one we're not allowed to say. So we've even done that today because it would be censored and he was having to worry about censorship.
Joel Mooneyhan (09:41):
Yeah, I mean, just as a people, we've all made the joke that you got to be careful what you're talking about near your phone because it's going to start giving you ads or they're going to come after you or whatever. So John is trying to get a certain message out without saying certain things, but saying other things in a way that his audience will understand the deeper meaning behind it. That's it. And that's all. Okay.
(10:07):
So the message that he's getting out is a message of hope and not fear. So what I tell people is if you read the book of Revelation and it scares you, then you have misunderstood it because all he's doing is giving hope to Christians who are enduring persecution that we cannot fathom. There are places in the world right now that can, and they could use a word like that. John is giving hope to Christians. He's not giving fear, he's not giving anxiety. And the Christian message is one of hope and not fear. To that point, to me, if you want to decode the book of Revelation, the most important verse is when Jesus says, I'm making all things new, that's Revelation 21, 5. And in fact, I don't even really need to turn to it. Really all it is he was sitting on the throne said, behold, I am making all things new.
(11:16):
So John has had this whole vision of persecution of these four horsemen that represent war and famine and pestilence and death, a scary empire, the antichrist, all of these things. What generation hasn't known all of those things. Every single generation has had to deal with everything that the book of Revelation is talking about. And Christians from the very beginning of the movement until now have had to navigate what it means to live as followers of Christ in the midst of a world that is hostile to it in different degrees and on different levels. But that's what this is all about. So Christ is making all things new. That's the central message to me. And when we look at it in Greek, there's some interesting linguistic stuff that's going on with the grammar. I won't go into all the details of it, but when he says, I'm making all things new, the connotation is that it is an active, ongoing and never ending project that Christ is involved in.
Jenny Beth Martin (12:33):
He didn't say Christ made things
Joel Mooneyhan (12:34):
Right. He's, I have made all things new. I will make all things new. I am making all things new with no implication of this ever stopping until everything is made new. That's an invitation to us as Christians, to be a part of what it means to make all things new, to be people who are part of Christ's renewing power in the world and through us. And it's an invitation to be a part of that. And so what I want to do for the next few weeks is look at some passages that will point us in the direction of what it means to live as people who believe that Christ is making all things new. And so we're going to look at a few different passages. We're going to look at 'em a little differently than maybe people have thought about them before. But that's the idea, is that Christ is making all things new.
(13:35):
He's inviting us to be a part of it. What does that mean for us as Christians who live in the United States and who live in the world in the 21st century? So that's where we're headed. And so I do want to leave it on the encouragement that wherever you are and whatever you're going through, Christ is in the act of renewal in the world all around you and right beside you. And if you are looking for hope, you can hope in that. And I would encourage people to continue to lean into that and to pray into that, to be a part of communities that will encourage you in that and let that carry you into the week.
Jenny Beth Martin (14:19):
Very good. Alright. So we need to be optimistic and hopeful and remember that Christ is making everything new and he's going to continue to do that.
Joel Mooneyhan (14:32):
And again, I think when I encounter people who say they're Christian and I never, I take people at their word when it comes to that, the fruits of their behaviors will reveal the truth of it or not. But if somebody's message is one of fear is one of trying to stir up division, trying to get you to look at people with suspicion or with hatred or as less than you or as your enemy, and they're using Christ's name to do that, they are not representing who Christ is. I will be happy to stand on that. And I'm not the type of person to say I could be wrong when I am, I am. But I'm confident in that the message of Christianity is one of hope
Jenny Beth Martin (15:38):
And love
Joel Mooneyhan (15:39):
And love and thinking of people who might ordinarily be your enemy as your neighbor and taking what might seem like abuse or persecution and making that as an opportunity to do service for others. And then again, to remember that we are citizens of a kingdom before anything else. And we'll unpack all those things in the next few weeks.
Jenny Beth Martin (16:09):
Okay. Very good. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing what more you have to say. Thanks. And everyone can join us. And we're going to be dropping these at one o'clock Eastern time, 1:00 PM Eastern time every day, the month of November. So not the bonus pod, but the regular podcast will be every day at one o'clock in the month of November. And this bonus pod for God and country will be at 1:00 PM on Sundays. So the people need to join us again next week, but before we do that, we should close it out in prayer.
Joel Mooneyhan (16:43):
Yeah, absolutely. All right, so let's do that. Almighty God, thank you again for this conversation and for the opportunity that we have to reflect on your word. We thank you for the freedom that we have to do that openly and we pray that we would not take that for granted. Most importantly, we pray for the strength and the courage to live as people who have hope, who have love, and who have faith. And as we go into the week that you would remind us of that so that by the things that we say, the things that we do, people would know that we are yours and we pray these things in the name of Christ. Amen.
Jenny Beth Martin (17:19):
Amen, Joe. Well thank you for being with us today,
Joel Mooneyhan (17:22):
Having me
Jenny Beth Martin (17:22):
And the audience thinks for joining us. We'll see you next Sunday for the Bonus Pod and we'll see you tomorrow for a new kind of Jenny Beth show. So we're looking forward to seeing you tomorrow at one o'clock Eastern Time and next Sunday at one o'clock Eastern Time.
Narrator (17:37):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.