In this episode, Jenny Beth Martin sits down with Dr. Jackie Deal and Dr. Sean Lin to expose how the Chinese Communist Party is waging a silent war on America — through economic espionage, information warfare, biotechnology, and chemical attacks like the fentanyl crisis. Dr. Deal, an expert on China’s military and economic strategy, reveals how Beijing exploits U.S. markets, media, and academia to gain global leverage. Dr. Lin, a survivor of the Tiananmen Square Massacre and former U.S. Army microbiologist, explains how China’s biotech programs and fentanyl operations amount to modern warfare against the American people. Together, they reveal the CCP’s endgame — and what America must do to fight back.
From economic espionage to biological and chemical warfare, the Chinese Communist Party’s goal is clear — global dominance and the subjugation of freedom.
In this powerful episode, Jenny Beth Martin is joined by two of America’s leading experts on China: Dr. Jackie Deal, a member of the Advisory Board for State Armor, and Dr. Sean Lin, Executive Director of the Concilium Institute, former U.S. Army microbiologist, and survivor of the Tiananmen Square Massacre.
Together, they expose the CCP’s coordinated campaign to infiltrate America’s economy, institutions, and information networks — and reveal how Beijing uses propaganda, technology, and even medicine to weaken the free world.
Dr. Jackie Deal is a member of the Advisory Board for State Armor. She has advised top U.S. defense leaders and policymakers on China’s long-term strategy, military buildup, and economic influence operations.
Dr. Sean Lin is Executive Director of the Concilium Institute, a former U.S. Army microbiologist, and survivor of the Tiananmen Square Massacre. He is a leading voice exposing the CCP’s human rights abuses, biological warfare programs, and global propaganda campaigns.
The Chinese Communist Party is not just competing with America — it is actively undermining it from within. From TikTok to fentanyl, from university research to land acquisitions near U.S. bases, the CCP’s multi-front war demands vigilance, courage, and truth.
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Narrator (00:00:14):
Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:00:18):
From economic espionage to biological warfare, the Chinese Communist Party's goal is clear global dominance in the subjugation of freedom. For decades, Beijing has waged war on liberty, not only against its own people, but against the free world itself. I'm Jenny Beth Martin, and this is a Jenny Be. Today, we're exposing the CCPs War on America, how it manipulates our economy, infiltrates our institutions, and undermines our national security. Joining me for this deep dive is our two leading experts, Dr. Jackie Diehl and Dr. Sean Lin. Dr. Jackie Diehl is president of the Long-Term Strategy Group. She's one of America's leading experts on China's military and economic strategy and has advised top US defense and policy leaders on how to counter Beijing's growing global influence. Dr. Sean Lin is a former US Army microbiologist survivor of the Tiananmen Square Massacre and executive director of the Consilium Institute. He's a leading voice for exposing the Chinese Communist party's human rights abuses and biological warfare ambitions. Jackie and Sean, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for having,
Sean Lin (00:01:35):
Thank you very much. Yeah,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:01:37):
Jackie, let's start with you. US spent decades analyzing China's long-term strategy for military buildup to influence operations inside the us. Your work makes one thing clear. The CCP doesn't just compete with America. It targets very systems that make us free. You've written that Beijing uses what you call weapons of mass persuasion from Hollywood to Wall Street to America's classrooms to soften public resistance and influence of our own elites. How does this propaganda strategy differ from what we saw in the Cold War and how effective has it been inside the United States?
Jackie Deal (00:02:16):
Well, first of all, thank you Jenny Beth for reading what I've written and for having me on and for making the analogy to the Cold War. It's funny that in the first quarter of the 21st century, sometimes we forget that not so long ago we were in another major power contest with an authoritarian Marxist Leninist regime in the Soviet Union. And in many ways history does rhyme. I would say the key difference between the new Cold War in which we find ourselves with Beijing and the Chinese Communist Party regime and the old Cold War against the Soviet Union would be the kind of expansive opportunities that the CCP enjoys to propagandize Americans. In the old Cold War, we didn't have personal computers and cell phones and social media and ai. The channels of information flow were relatively more confined and the United States was especially vigilant about those channels.
(00:03:21):
So for instance, we were very worried about preventing a potential hostile foreign adversary like this Soviets regime from having access to our airwaves. So we closely monitored ownership of cable TV and who could be on the airwaves, and we didn't allow foreign interests to exercise any kind of dominant role in mass media or educating our people or providing news. But today, of course, the situation is very different. There's been a proliferation of new forms of media and many people now get their information online from apps, and we don't have that kind of regulation to protect or American eyeballs and readers from the activities of hostile foreign regimes. We don't have as many or as strict regulations on ownership of the new platforms. So the opportunity space is greatly expanded relative to the Cold War. And yet I would say in some ways the kind of techniques that we're seeing, the categories that we recognize back then still apply.
(00:04:40):
So the challenge, the contours is in some respects the same. We're dealing with kind of a range of sources and we have to evaluate the veracity of and the integrity of these sources. So in the old days, we used to talk about, on the one hand, white sources that were kind of completely transparent and innocuous or not designed to kind of propagandize or shape views on behalf of a hostile foreign regime. And then at the other end of the spectrum were black sources that were designed to conceal the source of the news or the information and the purpose to shape views behind the information. And then in the middle there was kind of a gray space and that still obtains today. And I think other governments around the world have tried different ways to deal with this kind of array of sources and do so in a way that's kind of consistent with liberal in the sense of rule of law and freedom of speech respecting values and norms.
(00:05:44):
Maybe Taiwan is a model here in terms of not using censorship to deal with this threat, but rather trying to kind of raise to the surface for readers or viewers what the nature of the source is and then letting the viewers make the call. And the final thing I would say that I think is another key difference for us to take on board is when we were dealing with the Soviet communist regime, we were dealing with a regime that of course used propaganda and tried to kind of subversively and insidiously shape our views, make us less confident about democracy, less proud to be American, more open to or interested in their alternative. But I wouldn't say it was their number one kind of priority in the strategic competition or contest. Obviously the Soviets devoted huge amounts of their resources and time to the military competition, and that was conventional and strategic.
(00:06:46):
But to the extent that they focused on propaganda, that would be the more sub conventional side of the competition. And that was never, I don't think primary for the Soviet regime. Whereas in the Chinese Communist Party case, we're dealing with Xi Jinping echoing Mao in saying that the united front is the Chinese Communist party's first magic weapon for winning the competition or the contest prevailing against the West. The United States liberal democratic regimes rule of law regimes representative government regimes, and that means the military, the People's Liberation Army, the party's military is the second magic weapon, but the propaganda and the infiltration, the united front weapon comes first ahead of the military in some ways or paving the way for the use of the military. And so in that way, I think in the CCP, we're facing an even starker or more acute challenge in this realm of propaganda and information warfare. So it's all the more important that we start to reactivate the muscles and the conceptual frameworks and the impulses for self-defense that we had in the first Cold War. I think today.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:08:02):
Have you seen America working to begin to defend in that way? And it does not seem to me that our government is trying, and maybe it's not the right role of the government, maybe the right role is for people like us to teach fellow citizens, but how do we warn people about what to look for when it might be propaganda that we're receiving online?
Jackie Deal (00:08:26):
Well, in some sense, our private sector and our content providers should help us at least those from the United States or from rule of law following regimes in so far as I think it's in incumbent on them or useful to them even to distinguish in presenting information to do their best to say this is a government source or better yet a source from a regime that engages in propaganda and censorship. So a state backed media from a regime that believes in censorship and not free speech should be treated differently or presented differently. Those sources should be handled differently from rule of law free expression respecting societies. So I remember I think Google News for a time labeled certain content in terms of where it was from in that way. And I think Twitter or X has done that in the past. I think that's a minimal or a first step.
(00:09:32):
I think in the Taiwan case, their first minister of information or digital information had a kind of more robust regime just for alerting, again, readers and viewers, this content seems to be being promoted by a bot and that seems different from a information channel that has more integrity to it or is more circulating more organically. So I think putting viewers and readers in the driver's seat is the way to go for kind of freedom respecting regimes. There's two broad paths. One is disclose to the consumer, the reader, the viewer when the source is either a bot or a hostile foreign adversary regime or a regime that engages in censorship and propaganda and let the reader or the viewer be forewarned and forearmed and ingest the content armed with that information. The other way is the foreign adversary controlled Applications Act model legislation that I think wisely emulates some of the impulses we had in the Cold War.
(00:10:46):
This was the bill that would have or did compel a divestiture of TikTok from by stance because by ance, the parent company of that social media application we know is connected to the CCP and subject to the CCPs algorithmic control and censorship and propaganda priorities. And that bill obviously passed the Congress and was upheld by the Supreme Court. So that would be putting us back where we were in the Cold War in terms of trying to protect the market from platforms or sources broadly that are engaged in advocacy in a kind of black way on behalf of or potentially Black way and Gray way. Certainly on behalf of our number one major power competitor or rival,
Jenny Beth Martin (00:11:40):
Sean, I saw when I was asking that question about the censorship or how do we teach our fellow American citizens about this? You were nodding your head. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Sean Lin (00:11:50):
So thank you for reminding me to the program. So I think what you and Jackie have been discussing are very important issue that the Communist Party United front is the united front is United Battle front. So it's very critical for the Communist Party, even for them defeating the KMT. Actually one of the main tool is United Front. And so right now I think communist party compared to the informal Soviet Union is that their information warfare is a lot more sophisticated and also highly integrated with the current technology. So this is information war age right now. Communist party has using all kinds of information tools, not just the traditional ways of propaganda, newspapers and nowadays the social media platform and also how to integrate modern psychologies into the information warfare. How do you collect information from your target as well as analyzing these large information using AI program help to analyze the weakness from your opponents and then intricate waves of campaigns to understand how to act attack a person is very, very sophisticated now.
(00:13:15):
So it's not just making friendship and try to win Chinese. This pro in overseas try to have better CCP influence in the Western society is way more than that. So it's important strategy, it's important way that they can distribute their intricated information warfare against Western world, against United States. And of course there are many different tools. So including elite capture, they can using different tools, sometimes bribes, sometimes s scandal, try to do elite capture. And then using those people to tell a better, they call it better China stories basically better CCPs her story. And then of course they can using nowadays information warfare integrated with advanced technology, try to manipulate people's mind people's perception on the communist China. So the operation is in large scale a military unit involved in carry out sophisticated campaign to change people's opinion. So I was given the example that if they want to attack me, they can push out like 20 version, for example, 20 different version to attack me.
(00:14:41):
And it through distributed these different testing models on the social media platform, they can identify a few which are most effective and then carry out these attack in large scale to attack me specifically tailored to my own interest, my weakness in my psychologies. And so in that way they keep improving their tactics against one particular enemy or against particular sectors, against particular industry or against particular political figures. And they can also trigger further division inside the United States. They can make the young American generations hate particular party any particular figure. And so that the society can have more division and people easy to turn into angers against each other if they have different political opinions. So in my view, even the current strong political division status in United States is part of contributed by the sophisticated information where information warfare carried out by the Chinese party's large information warfare.
(00:15:55):
And so a lot of time we thinking that the communist party is attacking from outside, no, they actually attack from both outside as well inside the United States. And so the social media platform like TikTok, WeChat, many of the American people, many of the younger generation also using it. And if they're not TikTok and they maybe using the little red book, different social media apps and Chinese communist party all behind these apps, they are easily to manipulate the algorithm, how to capture young people's attention, how to use in some of the influencer, how to control this influencer to manipulate the public opinions. So they are different tools they can use very effectively by American public generally are not cautious about this and we are not protecting ourselves in this run.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:16:49):
I think that Americans, I think that Jackie wants to say something. Go ahead Jackie.
Jackie Deal (00:16:55):
Yeah, I wanted to build on what Sean said. He's absolutely right and the sophistication of the tailoring to not just demographics or specific demographics or particular cohorts in terms of age or gender or interest, but individual level susceptibility or interest is there now thanks to the tools that are in everyone's pockets or on everybody's risks and in everybody's hands. And there's also this ability that I think we kind of underestimate at our peril to borrow a boat. I think that's one of the Chinese communist parties terms for it to use whatever lines of argument or narratives or memes come up organically or naturally in our society and become popular for the CCPs purposes. So they can take some content that's kind of native to the United States that is maybe expressing a criticism or as Sean was saying, exacerbating some division or tension in our country and then they can kind of put it on steroids or supercharge it, turbocharge it and beam it to us at rates and at volume levels that are well outside what would organically come up. But in that way they can be more effective because they're using lines and narratives or images that already have resonance in our system. They don't have to come up with things sort of all the way in Beijing or from the perspective of Chinese culture, Chinese communist party culture. They can take things that are indigenous to the US or to the west that they can find a use for and manipulate them and turn them to their purposes.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:18:55):
It is alarming that not only they can do this, but that it is happening. And I don't think most Americans even consider when they're opening up social media and they're looking at it on their phone that some of what they're seeing, and there may even be times when most of what they're seeing are, it's a foreign propaganda trying to influence Americans and it's something we have to educate ourselves about so that we can learn how to protect ourselves about it. I remember something very simple that my mom used to tell me when I was growing up. I'd see an ad on TV and believe you're a child, so you believe everything that you see and you're like, oh, that chair can fly in the sky or something. And my mom would say, you can't believe everything you see on TV and it applies to every screen. You can't believe everything that you see and you have to look at it and go, is this real? Can I really believe it? Who is it that's liking my post? Or who is it that's complaining or that even here in America, and it's hard when you want a lot of likes and society and social media companies are judging you and you build a business based on getting a lot of likes on your posts, sometimes you don't want to delve in to figure out what's real and what's not.
Sean Lin (00:20:18):
Yeah, nowadays the ai, your social media, your cell phone knows you better
(00:20:26):
And they understand all about your hobbies, your interests, your particular even health conditions. Your firm knows a lot. And then many of these information taken works collected by the Chinese Communist Party, maybe through your routers, through tapping into your phones and also maybe through steering your health datas in the cloud. So there are many ways they can assist you and they understand you more clearly through large data analysis. And so I think we facing big danger. Even when I was in the military, I was very surprised and actually I receive an email from the Chinese communist parties owned company, big company. They telling me, can we help you analyze your bioinformatic information? Because I was actually in charge of the lab doing next generation sequencing. I was so shocked. How did they find this information? They're just very greedy to grab your bio information data. So I think in certain ways they understand us more than we know. Yeah.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:21:32):
Okay. And then shifting gears a little bit, Jackie, in your analysis, China's slowdown hasn't reduced its military ambitions. It's actually, its accelerated them in a foreign policy essay, you warn that Beijing is pouring resources into military buildup and supply chain control even as its economy falters. What does this tell us about the CCPs endgame and how do you think America should respond?
Jackie Deal (00:21:57):
Yeah, well thank you again for reading that piece. I think we in the United States have kind of generally had the view that economic growth would be conducive to peace. And our grand strategy has involved kind of trade with a wide variety of countries including or especially the people's Republic of China in the hopes that as they did better and engaged with the kind of open economic order that exists today, they would be inclined to want to kind of support it and join it on existing terms, on law abiding terms. And in fact, unfortunately I think we've seen the opposite. They've used their access through the WTO and to foreign markets to try to gain leverage over other countries. As Xi Jinping said in a speech in 2020 during COVID, the parties mandate or goal was to tighten control over international supply chains or tighten other countries dependence on China, its supply chain dependence on China so that those other countries, including the United States and our allies would have less leeway to stand up to challenges from the CCP or to protect themselves.
(00:23:19):
So it was very much a kind of central strategy of not letting the market dictate interactions, but using access kind of asymmetrically to gain power and leverage. And I think we need to keep in mind that the CCPs approach to economic interactions, therefore is not just about growth or even primarily about growth for its own sake. The way wheat in the west or in the United States tend to assume economic interactions are driven. Rather, in the CCPs case, the goal of economic interactions is to maximize the CCPs leverage or control. That explains, I think to some degree or en large measure or why the CCP has not done the things that Western economists prescribed for it that would've perhaps led to greater growth or helped it avoid the slowdown that the PRC economy has incurred in recent years. They picked the path of a slowdown, but more and more control not only of their own country but also over other countries economies.
(00:24:32):
Through this leverage they've accrued through dominating supply chains, which is by the way accomplished on the back of Chinese laborers and their exploitation. But what we've seen is in the period where their growth has definitely slowed, like say from 2015 on where on their own terms their GDP growth has been slower, or at least my group's independent estimate of their investment in the military is that it's accelerating their spending on the PLA has in some years from roughly 2015 to 2019, been twice as fast as their economic growth, meaning they see an opportunity to back their coercive leverage that they have from their central role in internet with military force or military threats. And the idea is to say to other countries, you can't stand up to us. We are so critical to your economy and your livelihood and your way of life, and if you even dare to look at all the missiles and ships and nuclear weapons, we can aim at you. So think twice before trying to protect yourselves, stand up to our coercion or our aggression. And unfortunately, I think that's the kind of vision that we're seeing the CCP enact or execute.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:26:04):
Wow. It's very alarming when you put it that way Jackie. And then you've also warned that the CCP uses America's openness against us, so they use our free markets and academic partnerships and even philanthropy as a bit of a strategic juujitsu. What are the most dangerous points of leverage China now holds inside of our country and how can we cut those ties without collapsing our own systems?
Jackie Deal (00:26:35):
Well, there's a new report out today from the Daily Caller that provides a kind of really vivid example of the dangers of letting Chinese Communist party linked actors have kind of unfettered access within the United States for real property purchase purposes. The story is about how a group that seems to be connected to the Ministry of State Security or China's intelligence apparatus, and this is a piece by Phil and Ziki in the Daily Caller today, Monday, November 10th. It's about how a group with those ties has purchased RV parks, right? That share a fence line. I mean the title is, there's an RV park that's connected to the Chinese intelligence apparatus that shares a fence line with the US Air Force base in Missouri from which most if not all of our P twos take off Whiteman Air Force base. So our stealth bomber force of p twos is right there.
(00:27:39):
And this RV park is the neighbor, meaning that RVs can drive in and out all day with who knows what in them from drones to sensitive electronic warfare or recording equipment. They have very clear close access to an important strategic base for the US military. And we've seen just in the last several months what an adversary can do if it has access like that to its advert. Its opponent's military insofar as we've seen the Ukrainians gain access to Russian air fields and use drones launched from the back of trucks or shipping containers to take out nuclear bombers. We've seen the Israelis do tremendous damage on the ground in Iran through similar techniques. So from a strategic sense or national security perspective, it's very dangerous to treat the Chinese Communist Party and its economic actors like there are any other trade partner or investment partner. Other examples come from the CCP select committee, the House committee on the competition with the Chinese Communist Party on Capitol Hill, chaired by John Mullinar from Michigan and Raja Krishnamurthy from Illinois.
(00:29:04):
That committee has put out a series of reports on Chinese penetration of American higher ed. Just last month, or I should say two months ago now. In September, the committee put out a report called Foxes in the Henhouse about how the Department of War, so our military effectively has been funding dual use or military, military relevant research through grants to US-based academics. And they found just from June, 2023 to June, 2025, there were 1400 publications that resulted from us DOW grants that were co-authored with researchers or scholars in the People's Republic of China. And in half the cases, the scholars, the co-authors in China weren't just at civilian universities or research institutions, they were actually working for PLA Chinese military labs or China's defense industry institutions. And even in the case of civilian universities in the People's Republic of China, the party has put laws in place to ensure that those institutions are party institutions and that individuals at them are required to deliver any intellectual property to which they gain access to Chinese intelligence and the Chinese defenses to establishment.
(00:30:32):
So partnering with Chinese counterparts even on academic research is very dangerous. So that's another example. And then on the philanthropy side, and here this gets to be a question of data collection, but we have examples where Chinese Communist party linked groups that are posing as civil society organizations or charitable organizations are gaining access to charitable funds or grants from the US government. Or sometimes companies are getting access to tax subsidies or incentives from states or from other governments in the United States, but they're using those resources to position on behalf of the Chinese military and the Chinese intelligence services as the Lenski daily caller story illustrates, we have a real problem in this country of hostile foreign adversary actors getting access to sensitive infrastructure. And then there's a number of cases where civil society groups or nominally charitable organizations, civic groups, were tasked by the Chinese Communist Party during C to go get personal protective equipment, PPE masks and send them back to China in the early months of the pandemic when the United States didn't quite realize what it was up against or going to be up against. So through those activities, these groups on the ground in the United States were actively serving the interests of Beijing at the expense of the interest of Uncle Sam or Americans. So those are just kind of a handful of examples to illustrate the kind of broad dimensions of this challenge.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:32:20):
It's alarming because it seems like it's at every turn when you start looking at it. Sean, I'd like to go to you next, and before we get into your expertise with biology and other areas will tell people what you experienced as a student in China.
Sean Lin (00:32:43):
Okay, yeah. So 1989, I was a freshman in JI University. I went to Beijing to join a protest against the government. And so actually on the June 3rd or the evening, I was actually in the Tam Square with many students. So that evening actually we knew the people Liberation Army already opened files on the way they had into Tam Square. So one thing that many civilian, even students die not in the Tam Square, but actually when the military move in, they many people tried to block the military, they already being killed. And I was able to withdraw with the last group of students living from southeast corner of T Square. And actually when we passing the town street heading north, and I actually together with a group of students, so we saw a tank coming over and one other student was so scared, so he fell down to the ground.
(00:33:43):
So the tank stopped and actually intentionally rolled back, crushed the student's score. And so we were totally petrified and fortunately at that moment the tank rode away, the soldier didn't came out of a tank. And later on when we went forward to see the students, he scores like a piece of paper on the ground. So it was horrifying. And so we was scared and we ran away. And then another group military soldier came and then they were throwing tear gas air chase nun. So I was forced to hide in this vans house for another half an hour and eventually when the soldier went away. So I was able to head back to Qinghai University with my friends. And then even in the campus of Qinghai University, I already see students' body are being brought back to the campus. And my friend said one of his classes actually lost one third of students in one night.
(00:34:46):
So their whole massacre, this one of the darkest moment in China model history. So based on different sources of analysis, some said several thousand by some estimates actually is over 10,000 civilian students being killed in one event. So it was a clear demonstration that the Chinese Communist Party do not care about people's lives. They only care how they can control their own power. And so in extreme environments, they were using military to kill innocent students and civilians as well. So I think the whole world so easy to forgot this kind of crime that CCB already done to the world. And many was the leader actually only care about if they can enter the market in China, but forgot about this is a group that they only care their own powers and they can use any ways to maintain, empower and try to compete in the world to gain dominance.
(00:35:50):
And that's why several years ago I was also involved in the documentary called The Final War. The CCP never changed their own nature. So people think, oh, China went to economy reform. Many people think that now CCP cannot changed, transforming and Chinese may have a better future under the current Chinese commun party dictatorship. I think that was illusion that the Chinese Communist Party went into economy reform. It's because their dealership was in a great danger after the long time cultural revolution, the whole economy almost totally collapsed and the CCP dealership was in danger. So they loosened up. The Chinese people are able to run their own private business, let a society recover a little bit. Chinese people put many of their talents efforts with them to create a business. That's how the Chinese economy reform can work. But the communist party nation never changed and they did not do any political reform.
(00:36:59):
So in the last 40 years, actually the whales of the society become more polarized. The communist party elite control more whales. And so even though at some level people's lives was improved, especially in the cities, but you can see the society is not sustainable. So even nowadays, more than half of the populations have monthly income is even lower than international poverty standards. So the society is very polarized and the whales accumulate in the party elites. So this is not a sustainable way. And I think the Western leadership actually were full by the Chinese Communist Party thinking they are reforming, but actually they're still aiming to take down, for example, United States leadership. They try to define the rule for the whole new world. That's what she say. You want to be the leader to define new world rules. So these part of the nature of the Communist Party never want to emphasize this.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:38:09):
It's hard to imagine what you saw that day in Tiananmen Square and I'm very thankful that you made it out and that you made it through that day and then you are here in America and able to shine light on what the country and the CCP is really, really like. Okay, so Sean, let's shift gears a little bit to that expertise that you have. You've testified that China's sector is deeply tied to its military, the People's Liberation army, and that they're developing dual use research with the potential for biological warfare. What's the real danger Americans should understand about this relationship?
Sean Lin (00:38:50):
Yeah, I think when we talk about biological warfare, a lot of times we have this impression of the traditional biological warfare. We are thinking maybe communist parties is developing some, for example, abstract, these kind of old bio weapons, they may be stockpiles weapons. But now with the current technologies in BA fields, it is changed the landscape significantly. And the Chinese Commerce Valley, clearly in the military doctrine talk about winning BA technology war. It is a strategic military high point that they need to take control. So there are many aspects they are developing very fast. And so for example, the advanced pathogen designs and these kind of r and d research and development has been ongoing for at least last two decades and they are very sophisticated in their molecular biologic tools. And so nowadays with AI support, they can easily design advanced pathogens. And it is not even like 10 years ago, many things they have to do like trial and error, figure out which one can enhance pathogenicity.
(00:40:14):
Nowadays with AI support, it can E three design a pathogenic can enhance the transmission or enhance pathogens ities different way to await immune system. It can simulate in the computers and also then generate it through new advance of synthetic biology so they can generate these passages much faster. And with new technology, they can even have potential to design mirror life forms. So these kind of mirror life forms, it does not exist in the natural world. So if in the future, if they can generate this mirror life form, for example, mirror forms of bacterial, so it cannot be detected by your own immune systems and in the natural world nothing can compete with these kind of new bio organisms. So now they already have some of the enzyme they can in the mirror forms the new trial forms of these enzymes already even published and communist parties were working very hard.
(00:41:28):
And this current development was actually also using the scientists who get trained in the United States and they went back train, have to develop and some other scientists who still in the United States, but through collaboration they can establish these kind of advanced new frontiers and they can develop new stretch to our whole world. So this is one example that this kind of deal usage, they through the so-called academic collaboration they can use in our resource to develop dangerous pathogen. And you actually thinking, oh, I'm just doing some scientific research working with a partner in China. But no, they can easily turn into military purpose. And also some of the Chinese institute they disguise as a civilian institute. So for example, the Beijing Institute of Microbiology, actually it's institute under Chinese military medicine, but they they're using another title maybe it sounds like a severe ht. So western scientific journals don't pay attention to that and it's easy to avoid any scrutinous as well.
(00:42:44):
And even the WUH Institute virology almost got the grant directly from the Department of Defense at a time. So there are different ways they can try to avoid us scrutiny on this aspect. And some of the military officer can disguise as a civilian researcher. And for example, one researchers in dealing agriculture university HD was doing gain of function studies on even in foreign influenza virus generating a new virus that could gain enhance the passages gymnastics. But you never know that this guy actually have a military rank. So he's basically a military officer by just working in a civilian institute as well. So this is one example. They have dual usage research and this is also a great strategy, great strategy. Xi Jinping rollup. So Xi, he himself in charge of civil military fusion committee that's actually top level committee commissions that XI Jin established. So it's like a national strategy.
(00:43:57):
So when we talk about deal use sometimes in the United States, we feel this concept is very neutral. It means it have a great potential but no for CCP do usage is example of civil military fusion is a part of the military strategy. And through national intelligence law CB can also actually enforce the Chinese citizens, even if they're overseas, they have the obligation to turn the valuable information to the communist party so that basically they can make Chinese people to become a spy working for them. So this is part of the civil military fusion as well. And so they can steal our information very actively, nonstop stealing our information. It's not just a traditional way we're thinking about communist party doing IP intelligence, property stealing. No, it's more than that now. It's easily still information like newly developed biomaterials shipping back to China or a different way maybe even bringing dangerous pathogen into the United States.
(00:45:18):
So there are different way they can attack. So if they bring dangerous pathogen into United States, they can even trigger the attack from the United States. And if international society notice that CCP doing dangerous pathogen study, they can find other countries to do this. For example, CCP had collaboration with Pakistan's military, which has strong collaboration with some of the terrorist group and the Wuhan Institute of Virology set up a partnership with Pakistan military to do virology study there. So not only they can collect sample in Pakistan in some of the southeast Asia countries, but they can also develop gain of function studies in those facilities in those areas. So in the future, if another COVID outbreak, it may start from other country, not from China. So there are different ways they can carry out this dangerous study can threaten the whole world. And so we just need to catch up our understanding of different strategy, how they can strengthen our whole world.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:46:25):
Sean, it's interesting the way that you were just talking about the dual use research and the civil military fusion and the way that you were describing how China thinks of that completely differently than America. America thinks of it as a good thing for society because you're getting more than one use out of it. But China sees it in a much more strategic way thinking of it much more in terms of how they can use everything for military gain and to gain power. And then we think about what Jackie was just saying about how there's a report that says there were 1400 Department of war grants for dual use research from June of 2023 to this year, and our government is paying for the grants to help China figure out dual use research. It's crazy, we need to stop this.
Sean Lin (00:47:25):
Yes, in a certain sense we're a little too late. I mean I remember several years ago, it was almost seven, eight years ago before COVID, I talked to one top executive from one biotech company and they had a huge investment inside China and they realized China tried to steal the technology. So they withdraw the investment out of China. But after they come back to the United States, they try to develop some collaboration inside the United States. So there is some of the top university and they realize those lab actually have so many Chinese students in there. And they said, wow, how do we know these students not going back to China, taking the technology that they learn develop inside the United States and they still going to China to benefit their industry, benefit their military purpose. So these kind of infiltration has been existing for long time and also inside the United States education systems, they are definitely scholars who liked the communist ideology, this so-called long March in the system. It has been a very effective strategy for the communist party for decades, even from the sixties seventies, they already implemented. So now so many scholars in the United States like the communist ideology, they have the sympathy for communist China. So they willing to collaborate with China, even they know their IPU is stolen. And so I think we are facing different kind of danger already. Their tactic has already been very effective for a long time.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:49:15):
Okay, let me shift gears just slightly to one other thing that you've talked about, Sean. You've said that China's fentanyl exports, you've called these chemical warfare in slow motion. The DEA says fentanyl kills over 200 Americans every day with nearly all of the precursors for fentanyl coming from China. Do you see this as an intentional state strategy or negligence of benefits? The CCP?
Sean Lin (00:49:43):
Oh, it is impossible. It is negligence. CCP conduct these operation in a very strategic way. If this is purely dumb by a drug dealers, you can see fentanyl probably failed in the whole world in different markets. But no fentanyl is primary target to the American. And even in the southeast Asias it only in the last couple of years that fentanyl is started to see in their, or maybe in Europe it started to see, but it has been targeted to United States for a long time. And so it's not run by the drug dealers in different regions just by purely like profit interest. It actually strategically create capacities from sending the precursors Southeast Asia to massacre and then building the capacities, even sending chemists to those areas to help them to know how to make fentanyls from those precursors. And then as Chinese Communist party work with local gangsters to help them do the drug distribution managing management as well, and then help the money laundering in this prospect.
(00:51:06):
So basically they supported the whole industry development for fentanyls production distribution inside the United States. And communist party always has strong partnership with drug dealers throughout the histories. Even before they're taking over China, they have collaboration with gangsters to produce many of these marijuanas ops. So they have long times histories know how to use these things to conquer the enemy. So basically fentanyl is one of the new drugs, very effective, very lethal, try to generate large casualties inside United States and also ruin younger generations. And so not only just fentanyl, even the marijuana that the Chinese gangsters now operate in the United States different from the marijuana that we think, oh, this is medical purpose, this is for entertainment purpose. No, that marijuana now has so much higher percentage of those active THC components is so easy to get addicted to it. It's very different. And so we got to understand this is a very, very serious chemical warfare against American people to destroy our health, destroy our mental strength, destroy our younger generations, and create huge disaster in the United States.
(00:52:36):
And they also supporting those drug dealers in the Latin Americas in Mexicos and create bigger capacities for them so that they can produce ship Maldi standard chemicals to the United States. So the drug war is not just traditional narcotic drug war. I think we actually directly dealing with CCPs strategies. They're money fueling mechanisms in those area and different ways to bringing those drug through different channels into the United States. And so unfortunately in the United States, so many states has these so-called legalization of those marijuanas, they actually create opportunity for many of these Chinese gangsters with the money back from the Chinese Communist Party to create large cultivation like basics foundations to generate these capacities inside the United States, for example, in Maine, in New Hampshire, and then distributed throughout the whole country. So it's a large, I can say it's large military scale operation, how to win this chemical war against American people. But a lot of time we're just thinking, are we just dealing with drug dealers? No, the communist party is behind it. It's a chemical war against American people.
Jenny Beth Martin (00:54:18):
Okay. I'm going to ask a couple of questions to wrap it up because we've been going for about an hour. You're both not in America right now. You're doing the interview from hotel rooms and other countries. You're experts and I appreciate your time and I can tell you I feel like we've covered the scope, but we've also just scratched the surface. We've talked about chemical warfare, biological warfare, information warfare, land acquisitions, how unconventional weapons are the first priority for China and they've increased their military spending even when they're having economic problems. It is a lot that we've covered in a very short, very short amount of time and there's a real problem and we have to keep doing everything we can to educate Americans about this problem. So my question, I have a couple of questions as we wrap up. What do you think is the most effective first step the Congress should take right now regarding China and the CCP? And then what can ordinary Americans do to help understand what we're dealing with? And so they don't listen to this and just feel like, oh my gosh, this problem is overwhelming and there's nothing they can do.
Jackie Deal (00:55:34):
Sure. Should I take that first? Yes, please. I guess at the congress level, there's some bills that are pending that have been outstanding now for a couple years, sometimes more than that, that are important and urgent and they should be passed. One of them is the BIOS secure act, which would at least prevent federal funds, American taxpayer dollars from going to Chinese military linked sort of national champion biotech companies or medical pharmaceutical companies that are being propped up by the Chinese Communist Party receiving subsidies so that they can underprice competitors to do work in the United States and render us dependent on their services and collect Americans medical genetic data, data about cutting edge medicines. So the Bios secure act should be passed Posthaste, there's another set of acts that have to do with higher education and protecting inquiry and intellectual property on university campuses in the United States. Those are the Deterrent Act and the Safe Research Act. The Deterrent Act would compel more transparency and punish failures of compliance with already existing requirements to report foreign gifts. So universities are supposed to report gifts of a certain magnitude from foreign countries. They should also be minimally transparent about any kind of research collaborations with hostile foreign adversary companies, countries, sorry, institutions or universities like Chinese universities that are party institutions. And if they are not transparent, they should pay fines, they should suffer potentially loss of US government funds.
(00:57:32):
The Safe Research Act would prohibit, I believe certain kinds of partnerships with Chinese Communist party linked or military linked entities. So these kinds of efforts by the Congress would take important steps or get us somewhere down the road of protecting ourselves at the federal level. But in our system, the brilliant design and grand experiment and self-government that we enjoy in the United States, we use a lot of powers delegated to the states and local governments. So the states also have to step up and pass their own versions of these laws. And frankly, states can experiment with different versions that are better suited to, or perhaps more aggressive in terms of limiting interactions with malign hostile actors in the Chinese Communist Party or linked to the Chinese military and intelligence apparatus. So states have already begun to pass bills prohibiting state insurance companies from reimbursing or paying for procedures using sequencers or softwares from Chinese military linked companies.
(00:58:52):
So this would be in the health space and in the medical space, but there could be more states that enact those bills. I believe Idaho, Texas, several other states have done it to date, but more could follow suit. And the states have also already begun to step up in terms of protecting their universities and requiring more transparency and placing more limits on foreign collaborations, at least with hostile foreign actors. Florida has done this, Texas has done this, Nebraska has done this, but again, other states can stand up and I think then this gets down to the level of voters and individuals, families and communities. They should be paying attention to what their representatives are doing or not doing in this space. And they should reward vigilance and efforts to protect our states and our people, our property and our intellectual property. And I think we're kind of back into the mode we were in frankly after nine 11.
(00:59:57):
If you see something, say something, if you see a person who appears to be suffering from intimidation tactics or being surveilled or followed, the Chinese Communist Party is in the habit now of trying to export compel people well outside China's borders, including in the United States to follow the Chinese Communist party's laws. So if you are privy to examples of this transnational repression or efforts to extend the surveillance state into our country or into our campus, you should report it to the police. Take note of the individuals or perpetrators and talk to law enforcement. Reach out, try to help the country be more vigilant about, again, CCP agents who may be doing Xi Jinping's bidding in our own
Jenny Beth Martin (01:00:56):
Country. Okay, thank you for that Jackie. And then Sean, what do you think congress should be doing and what can individuals do?
Sean Lin (01:01:06):
Yeah, I think Jackie covers very well on this aspect. I just want to add a little bit, I think different state level. The local politicians also need to understand CCP can exert their influence at a state level, a city level accounting level through elite captures try to have, for example, they can develop some smart city program collaborations, sister city relationship with local government try to infiltrating into United States at different level. So I think the state level also need to pay attention to that. And another angle I think we are not supposed to just to do defense, we can be more proactive. So I think the United States need to be side with Chinese people who are waking up against the Communist party. So I think United States can clearly saying we're supporting the Chinese people to have a new future without Chinese Communist Party. We can support Chinese peoples like bank paper movements.
(01:02:11):
They're waking up movement, they're quitting CCP movements inside China so that we can help Chinese people to gain free flow information through providing additional tool for Chinese people to break through the information censorship, the so-called great firewall. Us have the resource, have the tool, have the company who have very good experience in developing tools to break through the great firewall. We just need to provide these tools to Chinese people so we can encourage more Chinese people to jump over the great firewall to see objective information to waking up from CCP indoctrination so when they see the true evil nature of the Communist party, Chinese people will take down CCP from within. So I think we should take more proactive action, not just defend CCPs infiltration. There are attacks from different fronts. So I think want to emphasize this aspect.
Jenny Beth Martin (01:03:12):
Okay, that's very good. And there's a new movie or a movie that's fairly new that is out that maybe I can do a show on at some point that talks about that dramatizes what happened with the Wuhan lab. And it's one of those examples of how we can be proactive and get that kind of information through movies into China. We've covered a lot today. I appreciate both of you being here, Dr. Sean Lin and Dr. Jackie deal, for those who maybe haven't been paying a lot of attention to everything about China, I hope this gives you kind of an overview of some of the problems that America faces with China, but also gives you hope. We have someone who survived Tiananmen Square and is fighting for freedom every single day and standing up against the CCP every single day. And we have a woman who has dedicated her life to understanding China and understanding how we can contain it and how we as America continue to be strong and fight against it. So let that give you hope and we're going to continue to do shows educating you about what's happening with China and how we can make a difference and how our government can help ensure that we are looking out for America first. Thank you both for being with us. Thank you to the audience for joining us today. I'm Jenny Beth Martin. This is a Jenny Best show and we'll see you again tomorrow.
(01:04:35):
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Narrator (01:04:53):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org.