Jenny Beth sits down with former Member of Congress, the Honorable Michele Bachmann to discuss the early days of the tea party movement and why it is important to continue the fight for freedom in America.
Jenny Beth sits down with former Member of Congress, the Honorable Michele Bachmann to discuss the early days of the tea party movement and why it is important to continue the fight for freedom in America.
Twitter/X: @MicheleBachmann | @JennyBethM
Michelle Bachman (00:00:00):
That's when people got a voice and that's what the Tea Party did. It gave normal people, forgotten people, everyone a voice over what is unjust in America and what is just
Narrator (00:00:14):
Keeping our republic is on the line, and it requires Patriots with great passion, dedication, and eternal vigilance to preserve our freedoms. Jenny Beth Martin is the co-founder of Tea Party Patriots. She's an author, a filmmaker, and one of time magazine's most influential people in the world. But the title she's most proud of is Mom To Her Boy, girl Twins. She has been at the forefront fighting to protect America's core principles for more than a decade. Welcome to the Jenny Beth Show.
Jenny Beth martin (00:00:46):
In February of this year, the Modern Day Tea Party movement turned 15 years old. As we as celebrating that milestone, I wanted to do a series of episodes that highlights some of the key figures that help play an important role in the movement. My next guest is an absolute rockstar, is Whip Smart and has a backbone made of titanium. She's a dear friend, a mentor, and has taught me so much over the years. She founded the Tea Party Caucus in Congress and in the early days of the Tea Party movement was one of the only solid members of Congress for our values. Please welcome the Honorable Michelle Bachman. Michelle, it's so lovely to be with you. I'm so excited to be able to talk to you today. You are one of my mentors. You've been one of my mentors. You've taught me about the way things work in Congress, and I love you and I appreciate you and I'm so glad that you're here with me today.
Michelle Bachman (00:01:37):
Thank you, Jenny Beth, you've been remarkable. You're a real person and you came into Washington DC and you brought a lot of common sense with you, and I'm so grateful for the Tea Party and all that's been accomplished.
Jenny Beth martin (00:01:49):
Well, thank you. When we first got to know each other, it was in the height of the Obamacare debates. One of the things that I really learned from you during that time and over the years on other issues is the way that you found a way to go to the media and make your message and motivate grassroots to action, not just complain about whatever it was, but give them things to do. You were able to look at the congressional calendar and figure out timing of things in a way that I haven't seen many other people be able to do that the way that you did. How were you able to do that?
Michelle Bachman (00:02:32):
Well, I don't know that I was a genius with all of this, but like I was a real person and basically I'm a happy person and my goal when I went to the United States Congress is I wanted the United States to be the greatest nation for every person who lives in this country. And I was concerned about the decisions that were coming out of Washington, DC was encroaching on our lives, and the Tea Party was all about freedom. It was about personal economic freedom. It was about freedom in business against overreaching government regulation. It was a great organization that came together. But you had asked me about how did we figure out how to mobilize people? It didn't happen overnight. I came into Congress in 2006 when George W. Bush was president of the United States, and then in 2008, Barack Obama came in as president. He ran on an agenda of hope and change, and our hopes were dashed because of his change.
Michelle Bachman (00:03:30):
And so because of that, I looked around at my colleagues, I looked at the Democrats. The Democrats were not going to cross Barack Obama and the Republicans, I was a little taken aback at it seemed like a lack of Vigo, you might say, in opposing that agenda. So really the story came out of we can't allow these things to happen. So I'm giving background right now. So the first thing that I saw that was very odd, again, I'm just a normal person who came from a normal background to be in Washington DC and the first thing that Barack Obama wanted to do was to get rid of the light bulb. He was going to eliminate the light bulb. And I thought the light bulb, this has brought great good, not only to the United States, it's an invention that went around the world. It's illuminated our lives.
Michelle Bachman (00:04:24):
It's a great thing. Why would you embrace getting rid of it and making illegal the electric light bulb? So from there, I decided, this is so absurd. This may not have seem absurd now, and maybe to the viewers watching this, this was extremely absurd when it came out in 2008. And so I thought it was hilarious. Why would anyone do this? It was devastating economically, but it was also such a bizarre thing for someone to put their time and attention into. So I went immediately to my local media and I introduced a bill called The Light Bulb Freedom, the Freedom of Light Bulb backed or something like that. And I introduced that. And so I went to my local media and started to talk about it. And then national media in dc, they were interested in the freedom of light bulb back. And so I just started talking about it on the media and people, it was unique, it was quirky.
Michelle Bachman (00:05:24):
I wasn't trying to get attention. That was not the purpose, but I wanted people to know how absurd these things were happening in DC and that the Obama agenda was literally taking away our freedom of choice over the light bulb because freedom is what we're based on. There is nothing in the Constitution that allows our government to dictate to us what light bulb we're going to use after that happened. You'll remember Jenny Beth, the economic crisis. It was 2006 to 2008, and incredible efforts were made to hurt the American people. And if you remember, this is really the rise of the Tea Party. Yes. It's because when this happened for the first time in American history, the Fed's discount window was open to banks. And so what does this mean? This means that the federal government was going to bail out banks that had made foolish choices.
Michelle Bachman (00:06:24):
So the banks were going to be able to privatize their wins. So when they had profits, they were going to be able to hold onto them and take them at the bank. But when they threw the dice and they made a foolish decision and they engaged a loss unlike any other business in America, the federal government would step in and we would protect these big banks. And so then we would share all the losses. In other words, the American taxpayer was good enough to hold the bag and eat the losses of these private banks. And this was horrifying. This was, again, another failure in freedom. It was taking away your freedom, my freedom. And so how are we going to deal with that? Well, I remember George W. Bush sent over Hank Paulson who was the Treasury Secretary, and he told all of us, the Republicans in the House of Representatives, it was our duty to give the Treasury Secretary a blank check for over $800 billion.
Michelle Bachman (00:07:21):
Jenny Beth, this shows how much time has changed. In 2008, $800 billion was considered a lot of money, more money than we could possibly imagine. And I remember going to the microphone and saying to the treasury secretary, Mr. Secretary, if we give you what you want, $800 billion with contained in the bill, there would be no right for anyone to go to the Supreme Court to litigate this. There would be no liability. There would be no right of payback from the banks. What do we do if you're wrong? What if this leads to a crash? Where do we go if you're wrong? And he was extremely angry, very frustrated. He was storming and ranting and raving, and he said, well, then I won't say the words he used, but he said, well, then we'll lose. And I thought, that's not good enough. And so ultimately, the Republicans twisted the arms and broke the arms of other Republican members of Congress and got them to put pressure on members of Congress to give this right where the federal government, again, this is a violation of a property, we would be having to pay for the debts of a private bank.
Michelle Bachman (00:08:36):
Why are we doing this? What a terrible precedent. So again, I spoke with my colleagues, they were going to be a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution. So I started to talk about it. And so I issued press releases and I talked about it in the media. And of course this is a big area, and someone who was a Republican wasn't going along with what a Republican president and a Republican house and Senate wanted to do. And so this was newsworthy. Again, my goal wasn't to put my name, my face. We were often accused of trying to bring attention to ourselves. That wasn't it. I was a small business owner. I had been a federal tax lawyer. I'd had five kids and 23 foster kids and grandchildren, and I knew that this would be a devastating precedent to start in the United States.
Michelle Bachman (00:09:31):
And so I wanted to bring attention to it. And so that issue got bigger and bigger and bigger because when the American people saw how unjust this was, the American government wasn't going to come and bail you out, Jenny Beth. If you had a bankruptcy or if you couldn't pay your bills or my business, they wouldn't bail me out, but they would bail out Wall Street. And so this should not be done. And very slowly, that's when the Tea party formed. That's when people got a voice, and that's what the Tea Party did. It gave normal people, forgotten people, everyone a voice over what is unjust in America and what is just. And so that was the beginning. And so you know this, we saw people in town halls all across the United States stand up. I rate to the Republicans, they would go to Republicans who held town halls in their local districts and they would hold them to account. And so what happened is that every single Republican who voted for what was called the tarp bailout, every single one lost their seat in the next election that got people's attention all across Washington dc and they learned a very stinging message about the fact that we shouldn't cross the common man. We should stand up for what we believe in. We should stand up for economic freedom, personal freedom, business freedom, and we can't do this to the American people. Let them hold the bag for other people's losses.
Jenny Beth martin (00:11:06):
During that time in 2008, that's when my now ex-husband and I were going through our own financial crisis and we were going through bankruptcy and his business had failed. And this is how I wound up being involved in the Tea Party movement. And I'd been active before, but his business failed and it was horrible. Not a fun time for either one of us, but we sucked it up and understood this is we risked. It was his business, but I supported him. So I always take responsibility as well. We risked things, made bad decisions, it didn't work, and we had to suffer the consequences for it. And we lost our house, we lost our cars. All of these things were happening, and we started cleaning our neighbor's houses to help make ends meet. We both had college education, we're college educated and had college degrees, but it's in the middle of a recession. So you
Michelle Bachman (00:12:10):
Did what you,
Jenny Beth martin (00:12:12):
You had to do. We did what you had to do. And we just couldn't envision going on welfare either. So we're cleaning their houses and then the chart bill starts moving through. And I remember just going, I can't believe that there are people who are, they think that there's a business too big to fail that is completely wrong. We're here doing this right now.
Michelle Bachman (00:12:31):
Say that line again. Too big to fail. Big to fail. These banks were called too big too to fail. They were so important to the federal government. We couldn't let them fail. And then other banks come up behind them. We were
Jenny Beth martin (00:12:46):
Too, too small to matter,
Michelle Bachman (00:12:49):
Too small to matter. That's a great line. And so that's what happened. So that outraged you. Yes, it did. The injustice,
Jenny Beth martin (00:12:55):
The injustice. And
Michelle Bachman (00:12:55):
I think that's what people just like you, Jenny Beth, all across the United States, they saw the injustice of what Congress was doing. That's what I saw. We were small business people too, and that's part of the American dream. You roll the dice, maybe you succeed, maybe you fail, but the next day you try, try again and you go back. But in this case, the banks could roll the dice knowing full well they were never going to have to pay the price. That's patently unjust. And that's where I think that basic issue of fairness resonated with people all across the United States. And so that wasn't a matter of stuffed shirt politicians standing in Washington DC in front of a microphone either in the Capitol or outside the Capitol. This was real people on the beat in their own backyard and their own community coming to talk to their member of Congress and tell them, what are you thinking?
Michelle Bachman (00:13:52):
Why are you doing this? Why are the big banks? Why is Wall Street the preferred customer? But I'm not the preferred customer. I'm barely able to hold onto my family and pay my own bills, and now you want me to pay Wall Street bankers bills too? I mean, it just brings back in my memory the outrage of that time. And it was immoral righteousness that was based on truth and was based on demonstrable fact and that galvanized people to come together and stand up. And so I think the more that people like me who had that privilege of serving in Congress, the more I would see these irrational decisions coming out of Congress that were actually hurting normal people and hurting real people's lives. Ultimately, it was going to hurt the banking industry because you don't subsidize bad bets. And that's what we were doing in government subsidizing a bad bent.
Michelle Bachman (00:14:50):
This was really the American people were holding government accountable by their outrage saying, this is an unjust decision. I'm outraged about it, and I'm going to throw you out of office for making this bad call and replacing you with somebody who's going to try and look out for my best interest, not the best interest of a Wall Street bank. It's nothing against Wall Street. It's against the moral error of telling Wall Street. We're going to build a wall around you because you're too big to fail, and so we're going to make sure you never have to pay for your bad decisions, unlike you who you and your husband lost everything. You lost your home in a decision that just didn't pan out. So really it wasn't a strategy on my part or any of the other members of Congress part. What we did is we entered the battle, we saw the battle, we entered the battle, and we started to speak out.
Michelle Bachman (00:15:47):
We raised our voice. And so what I heard from people back home, that's what I was giving voice to, the every man voice, the forgotten person voice, and giving their point of view. There were too many politicians giving Wall Street's point of view of banks who made really bad decisions. Remember Jenny Beth? They were giving housing loans to people who had no business owning a house. Why did they have no business? Because they had no job. They had no job, no reasonable ability to ever make a mortgage payment, much less an insurance payment or all that's required in owning a home. They couldn't do it
Jenny Beth martin (00:16:25):
Or they were approving them for a million or $2 million house when they should have been in a 250,000 or $150,000. House
Michelle Bachman (00:16:33):
Bank is so bad, Jenny Path that these banks were giving loans to people with no money down. They had no job, they had no credit history, but they would give money to the people. So why not? It was free money. You sign up for a house and you know how long it takes to evict someone and get someone out who doesn't pay their bills, but then you get $1,500 on top of that and walking around spending money. This was how insane these policies are. Why should we allow insane policies to prevail? We don't have the time, we don't have the money. And real people ended up holding the bag. And so really all it was Jenny Beth was just telling the truth about what was going on. People didn't understand how Congress worked. I didn't understand how Congress worked when I went there, and it's a hierarchy, and I called it being in Congress was like, think of the Christmas tree in your living room and you have the star on top of the Christmas tree.
Michelle Bachman (00:17:30):
That's the speaker of the house. And then you have all the ornaments underneath that getting down to the widest part of the bottom of the Christmas tree. Those are all the members of Congress and all the ornaments are trying to jump up to the next bow, the next branch, so that they can get closer and closer to the top or the speaker of the houses. And the closer they get up there, they might get a benefit like holding a gavel and they could chair a subcommittee, they could chair a real committee. They could maybe have some perk that they could get out of the speaker of the house. So everyone was busy kissing up to the speaker of the house so they could move up in Congress. And the price that members of Congress paid, Jenny Beth was silence. They would silence their voice. They wouldn't push back against the policies that the speaker of the house was putting forth.
Michelle Bachman (00:18:21):
Well, where did the speaker of the house come up with those policies? By talking to Jenny Beth Martin and her husband about business? No, they were talking to Wall Street. The people had made the bad decisions. And so Wall Street was giving them a lot of money in their pocket to run for elections and then secure their position as speaker. So they were speaking for the people who they were protecting from their bad decisions and then sticking. We were good enough to be stuck with their bill for foolish decisions. So all we did, it just began with just telling the truth and being willing to speak out against Republican leadership. When I went to Congress, I didn't go with the goal in mind that I want to be the Chair of the Ways and means committee someday. Even though I think I was the only federal tax litigation attorney in Congress, I had a law degree, but I had a postdoc degree in federal tax law.
Michelle Bachman (00:19:18):
I had practice in federal tax court. So I had a background. I was a small business owner, but I never had the ambition that I wanted to be the chair of that committee. If I did, I guess I was maybe too dense to understand what I needed to do. I needed to raise a lot of money and give it to the Speaker of the house so he could stay speaker of the house. I thought my job as a member of Congress was to represent all of the Joes and Jills that live in the sixth District of Minnesota and bring their concerns to bear in DC I found out that isn't how it works in DC very soon members of Congress are expected to tow the line and carry the water for the speaker of the house. That isn't how our system of government is supposed to be.
Michelle Bachman (00:20:04):
People got fed up when the curtain was pulled back, just like in the Wizard of Oz, when the curtain was pulled back during that tarp vote when we were supposed to give $800 million to the Treasury Secretary to bail out foolish banks on Wall Street, that's when the American people saw what a rigged deal rigged against me and rigged against the rich guys who back scratch these people in Congress. And that was the truth. That was the truth. And so that was one battle that we had. And I will say Jenny Beth, that was a huge victory. It was a victory for the American people in the sense that the American people knew they couldn't just trust what Congress was saying, they wouldn't go along with it. And then people were like bees and a hive that had just been knocked over, and they came out of that hive and they said, not in my country. You don't get to stick me with this foolish bill. That was a huge victory and it was done in the members of Congress backyard. But it happened because some members of Congress were willing to tell the story and to stand up against leadership.
Jenny Beth martin (00:21:14):
That's right. In 2008, I was chairman of quite a few presidential candidates or campaigns locally, and I wound up ultimately being the chairman of McCain's campaign in my county. And so after the vote for TARP, when he suspended his campaign to go back and vote the same way that then Senator Barack Obama was voting on tarp in our local county, we could not give away. Well, we gave away bumper stickers for McCain Palin, and they would cut off McCain and just stick palin on their car. And then Sby Chambliss, who was the senator, we couldn't pay them to take his signs. They wanted nothing to do with him because of his vote up until that time, everything was going really well. And after that, they were like, we're getting rid of McCain Saxbys on his own. And he wound up going to a runoff. He did ultimately win, but I think had he not voted for tarp, there never would've been a runoff.
Michelle Bachman (00:22:14):
Oh, there's no question. I had just come into Congress. It was the first presidential debate of the 2008 cycle. And in the debate, Barack Obama came out first in favor of the 800 billion. Yeah, 800 and the number is so big, I can't even say it, 800 billion bailout. And I thought, oh my goodness. He just drove a truck through a tremendous opportunity for John McCain. John McCain could distinct himself from Barack Obama. Barack Obama was ahead in the polls because he was the first African-American running for president. John McCain needed to distinguish himself. He was a war hero. People didn't have anything personal against John McCain, but this was a big issue. And I think John McCain unfortunately failed to read the tea leaves of where the American people were coming from. They didn't want to be the patsies stuck holding the bag for these failed banks that made these bad decisions.
Michelle Bachman (00:23:15):
So Barack Obama was for paying off Wall Street. John McCain could have said, I'm not for paying off Wall Street. Why in the world would we do that? But then he came out and said at that point, I believe that's when John McCain lost the 2008 presidential election because he said, Barack Obama, I agree with you. The American government has to bail out these bad decisions that were made. And that was it. It was over Why in the world should we support a candidate who is no different than Barack Obama, who is an attractive a candidate with an attractive profile? And the American people then chose Mr. Hope and change who dashed our hopes and gave us the worst change we could have ever imagined in American history.
Jenny Beth martin (00:24:00):
He certainly did. He fundamentally transformed the
Michelle Bachman (00:24:04):
Country. Yes, that's right.
Jenny Beth martin (00:24:05):
So we move forward just a little bit more. He is inaugurated, becomes president, and then in February they decided the 800 billion wasn't enough and did the stimulus bill. And that's when
Michelle Bachman (00:24:20):
That was another
Jenny Beth martin (00:24:20):
Trillion
Michelle Bachman (00:24:21):
Dollars. Yes. So again, we were not used to talking Jenny Beth in terms of trillions of dollars. This is back when a billion was a lot of money. So I mean, this is shocking to me. When I came into Congress, we were about 6 trillion in debt. That was in 2006, about six, $7 trillion. Now we are 34 trillion and every 90 days now we're adding another trillion. And here's the thing, at the end of the day, math wins. It doesn't matter what we think math wins. You found that out in a painful way in your own life with your own business. The same is true for federal governments. And governments collapse because math wins. Oh, you bet. We've got Germany in the 1920s with the Weimar Republic. We can't indulge ourselves with the thinking that we aren't susceptible to bankruptcy as well. We are, and we've got to wake up and wake up fast.
Jenny Beth martin (00:25:24):
And that's why we got started. A lot of people, they just don't understand what we were paying attention to as the movement got started. So Rick Elli has his rant. He complains about the stimulus bill. Our founding fathers would be turning over in their graves. We should have a tea party like the founding fathers. And he said, you here wants to pee for your house, your neighbor's house, who can no longer afford it, and that house has more bathrooms than you do. And I was like, we had been offered. After we lost our house, we were looking at a rental home in the driveway of a rental home. We get a phone call from the mortgage company of the house that we lost in bankruptcy, and they said, we can give you this loan and it's a Fannie Mae or Freddie and you can stay in your house that you can no longer afford because you just went bankrupt. Nobody gives money to someone who just went bankrupt. That's right. No one in their right mind. You're
Michelle Bachman (00:26:20):
Not supposed to, at least for seven years,
Jenny Beth martin (00:26:22):
Who does? Our federal government did during that time? It's craziness. And we looked at each other and we just said, we can't take that. That's the money we were just complaining about. So we refused that and went ahead and proceeded with the rental home and starting over. And bankruptcy is a horrible thing. It's a
Michelle Bachman (00:26:43):
Horrible thing personally to go through
Jenny Beth martin (00:26:45):
It. Also, if you're going to go through it, you need to start over. You don't want to just keep PIL piling on to things you could no longer afford. And so we didn't take that money. Well, when he said that Who wants to pay for your neighbor's house, who can no longer afford it, we were like, we didn't want our neighbors paying for our house that had a lot of bathrooms and was a nice house when we can no longer afford it. And we cleaned our neighbor's homes rather than them paying for a house we can no longer afford. I'm holding a tea party. And a week later, there were 48 tea parties around the country with 35,000 people in attendance, six weeks later tax day. And then in September we had the March on Washington and shortly after that march on Washington, I remember you were on Sean Hannity on a Friday night. That's right. And you called for people to go to Washington over Obamacare, I think on Tuesday or Thursday, Thursday of the next week. And I remember going online and searching for your chief of staff or somebody and reaching out and emailing, going, I don't think you know what she just did.
Michelle Bachman (00:27:51):
There's
Jenny Beth martin (00:27:51):
Going to be a lot of people there and will help. But they didn't quite know who I was, even though I had just done the march on dc. I didn't know your staff or you at the time. And so I was there and kind of worked the crowd ahead of time, and I think that a FP wound up paying for the microphone that day for that particular event.
Michelle Bachman (00:28:11):
I can't remember. Lemme just give you a little bit of a backstory on that. Again, as a relatively new member of Congress, I saw one outrageous event after another under Obama. It was George W. Bush asking us for 800, almost a trillion dollars to bail out these banks. Then Barack Obama wanted to make the light bulb bill legal. Then if you remember the automobile task force that he put together, he literally sent pink slips to over 3000 businesses in the United States car dealerships, and they had to cease and desist business. The federal government, I mean this was government acting like gangster government. I was so floored. I went down to the house floor and I gave a speech called gangster government. I was so incensed that government could shut down a private business. How did they get the authority to do that? They don't have the authority.
Michelle Bachman (00:29:07):
They have the power, but they don't have the authority. Then came along Obamacare and remember Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi famously said, we have to pass the bill to know what's in it. And so it was a terrible bill. I had farmers come to me and say, I'm having to pay. I will have to pay because I'm forced to buy this health insurance that I don't want, but I'll have to pay $13,000 just in a deductible, and I will never be able to use this health insurance. This is going to kill me and my farm. It was a terrible, terrible piece of legislation. So Obamacare, Jenny Beth was taking over one sixth of the American economy, one sixth, and this was literally life and death government would've the power of life and death over healthcare decisions in the United States. So I saw what this would be.
Michelle Bachman (00:29:57):
We own a mental health clinic. So I had that background. I'd been a federal tax lawyer. I had that background, and it was in a snap. I saw how devastating socialized medicine would be to the United States because if you look at the history of nations in modern times, any nation that adopts socialized medicine renders themselves bankrupt fairly soon and they destroy their healthcare system, which hurts people's lives. And I thought, this is a great moral wrong, a great moral sin, and so what were we going to do about this? And I saw Republicans going along and I will never forget it. I was in conference that week and our leader said to us, he was the minority leader at that time. He said to us, well, we just have to realize it's over and we have to give up next Thursday. They're going to have the vote.
Michelle Bachman (00:30:49):
Obamacare is going to pass. It's the best we can do. There's nothing more we can do about it. We just have to get through this and live another day. And I remember looking around the conference room, there are over 200 fellow members of Congress, and I thought, we're just going to stand by and surrender one sixth of the American economy that will never come back again. We will never undo Obamacare if it gets through and we're just going to go ahead and let it go. And I had been on TV quite a bit at that time because I was standing up on all these never before seen egregious, outrageous that were happening under the Obama administration. And so Sean handed me, as you said, invited me on a show on Friday night. So I had no tool, I had nothing. I was a young member, nothing, no power.
Michelle Bachman (00:31:39):
And so I thought the one thing I had was I was in the A block, the first nine minutes of Sean's show and the day that I was going to be on his show that Friday night was, that was the day Jenny Beth that the bill actually came out. It was printed. So I had my staff print the bill. It weighed 20 pounds. It was so huge. It weighed 20 pounds big year. I had this huge stack of paper sitting on my lap, and I said, Sean, I explained what had happened, and I said, Sean, I don't know about anybody else, but we cannot go down and let this happen without a fight. Next Thursday, I'm going to be standing on the steps of the United States Capitol. If anyone wants to join me, I know that the thing that terrifies members of Congress more than anything else is seeing the whites of their constituents eyes.
Michelle Bachman (00:32:32):
So if you want to join me on the Capitol, we'll go and we'll visit your member of Congress and you can tell them, not with my healthcare, you don't. Something to that effect. And so that was a Friday night. Friday night, who's going to be watching TV Friday night? All of our supporters, because my email blew up apparently because in a 24 hour period, I didn't know Sean Hannity. I got a phone call from Sean Hannity and he said, are you serious about this? I said, absolutely. I'm going to be standing at the Capitol next new. There's nothing else we can do, but we can't just give in and wave the white flag of surrender. We've got to fight this. This is socialized medicine. This is going to destroy our country. And he said, I agree with you. This is great. He said, I talked to Rush Limbaugh every day and I talked to Mark Levin.
Michelle Bachman (00:33:19):
I'm going to call both of them. What? Wow. And so then Mark Levin, I think I had been in a show or something happened. Anyway, he and I talked and I asked him, mark, would you be willing to be at the Capitol because people would love to see Mark Levin. That's before he had a TV show. And so he agreed to come. And so he said that he would come. And then I think Sean Hannity or Mark Levin called Rush Limbaugh. And Rush Limbaugh mentioned it on his show on Monday. Then Glenn Beck heard about it, and Glenn Beck talked about it on his show. I mean, again, I had no money, no organization, no website, nothing. There was no organization of any kind. So people really didn't hear about this Sean Hannity show, but people really didn't hear about this until Monday when Rush Limbaugh went on his show and Mark Levin went on his show and Mark Levin promoted this.
Michelle Bachman (00:34:19):
So just think that's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday noon on Thursday shows up and Jenny Beth, 40,000 people from across the United States showed up. They were standing there loaded for Bear, ready to do something about this. And all it meant Jenny Beth, it wasn't that I was great. What showed is that the American people wanted somebody to fight. That's right. They wanted somebody to fight. So they showed up. And the interesting thing is the Republican leadership ran down the steps first. Remember we had a microphone and microphone. So they ran down the steps first and said, oh yeah. Oh yeah. We don't like Obamacare either. And so then anyway, all the members of Congress want to speak because they want to speak, they want to show they're on the right side of the issue. And so it's like 142, I don't know how many members, but they went one by one to the microphone.
Michelle Bachman (00:35:16):
And so the people then decided, we've got to go to our members. So the Cannon building, the Longworth building, the Rayburn building, all these house buildings and the Senate buildings, literally the lines were so long, they were wrapping around the buildings three times. Nancy Pelosi closed her office door, Barney Frank closed his office door. Different Democrats sent their staffs home. They didn't want to see the whites of their constituents eyes. But I will tell you, for the Republicans, I'd never seen anything like it. Candace, a fellow member Republican from Michigan said, she came up to me, she was giddy. She was just so much joy. And she said, I had 18 buses from my district show up. So the American people organized themselves. Yes. That was unbelievable. Jenny Beth. They organized themselves. They came, and I'm telling you, it changed the Capitol forever. It changed the Capitol because people saw that day, Nancy Pelosi said, tea party Tea Party is just a fake.
Michelle Bachman (00:36:25):
It's AstroTurf. It's not real. So she didn't want the American people to think that there really was a movement that opposed Obamacare. And I'm telling you, it was a spark that you couldn't put out. It was a wildfire. And that wildfire swept across the United States. And it wasn't until Donald Trump came into office in 2016 and as president, he removed the individual mandate, the mandate that forced every American to buy Obamacare, whether they wanted to or not, whether they get afforded or not. Donald Trump took away that individual mandate, and that saved us. That saved us. But it started that day in front of the Capitol when 40,000 people came and they came from all 50 states. And I had people, Jenny Beth come to me and say, my wife and I saw you when you were on Sean Hannity's show. And we just picked up the phone. We bought airplane tickets, we spent our vacation money, we took this money. I took my daughter. We drove all the way from wherever. It was the most exciting day I ever had in the United States Congress. And it was just the idea of not giving up, not surrendering, and saying, Lord, what tools do I have? You use them for your glory, for your plan? And he did. He performed a miracle that day that I'd never seen before in Washington DC
Jenny Beth martin (00:37:52):
It was amazing. It was an amazing day then. So I was there and I was in the crowd, but working the crowd and because we'd done the march on DC Had you
Michelle Bachman (00:38:04):
Started Tea Party by
Jenny Beth martin (00:38:05):
Then? Yeah, we had started by then. So that was in October or November I think, or somewhere in September, October or November. On September 11th of that year. A few weeks before this, we'd done the nine, 12 March on DC. And we had,
Michelle Bachman (00:38:23):
I remember that.
Jenny Beth martin (00:38:24):
So we had a million and a half people in DC and I
Michelle Bachman (00:38:28):
Think Glenn Beck was a part of that, if I
Jenny Beth martin (00:38:30):
Remember. He was a part of it. And FreedomWorks paid for the stage they us to organize. I was the organizer in the mc. And so when you did that, all these people immediately started emailing me, so what's the plan? What are we doing? And I'm like, I don't know, but we'll have a plan. Don't worry. Just show up and I'll make sure. So I'm in the crowd kind of working the crowd. I helped explain how to go through Congress and whatever. It's just offering
Jenny Beth martin (00:38:59):
Assistance to the crowd. And then I get back home on Friday and I flew in, got to my house and had a phone call from Paul Teller who was at that time, the executive director of the Republican Study Committee. And he said, there's a phone call that I need to connect you to. There are a couple of people who want to speak to you. And I said, okay. And it was you and Steve King and you both said, so Jenny Beth, we need you to come back to Washington right now as we have to have you tomorrow and front of the capitol again. And I'm like, right, right now. And he said, yes, right now we go get on a plane right now. We need you back. And so I went back, and that
Michelle Bachman (00:39:41):
Is because there was momentum, there was moment, there was momentum. It was lightning struck in a bottle on that Obamacare rally that we had. And so we didn't want to let that momentum go. And
Jenny Beth martin (00:39:52):
That is so important, Michelle, I want you to talk. And the thing that we did on Saturday was a press conference and we unrolled the entire bill and a spool so people
Michelle Bachman (00:40:02):
Could see how outlandish and huge and overpowering this bill was. But that was the thing. A lot of it was really going by our gut. We were trying to go by our gut because we were serious. That's for us. We wanted to defeat Obamacare. We weren't there to be political. We weren't there to go along to get along. We wanted to defeat a really bad idea. And the American people finally had an outlet to say, we don't like this. We're not going to eat this plate of dog food called Obamacare. And that's why we needed you to come back in because we needed to let the American people know this wasn't a gimmick. We weren't trying to have some hokey press conference. We were trying to actually defeat this bill. We were serious about it.
Jenny Beth martin (00:40:49):
And they felt like someone was fighting for them.
Michelle Bachman (00:40:51):
Yes, they were like, there
Jenny Beth martin (00:40:52):
Someone fighting for us. They
Michelle Bachman (00:40:53):
Get it. We've been yelling. Nobody was fighting against
Jenny Beth martin (00:40:55):
It. Can you hear us?
Michelle Bachman (00:40:57):
It was the deep state.
Jenny Beth martin (00:40:57):
That's right. And you heard in that momentum was so important. And then you pulled in the press and you did press conferences and you just, it's not like you trained. Your background was not in marketing.
Michelle Bachman (00:41:13):
I had been a mother, a foster mother, and then a federal tax lawyer that was my background and a business person never before had I done media. I had been a state senator in Minnesota for six years, but I'd never been on this level before on a national stage. But the one thing I knew was fighting because I had fought a huge educational battle in Minnesota, liberal state, and we saw victory in a very unlikely venue. And so that kind of made me think, yeah, you can fight city hall. So when Obamacare came up, I thought we did it in Minnesota. Very unlikely we defeated this terrible education measure. We can do that here. And so that's what happened. The American people came together, they were thrilled. There was so much energy because a little bit of energy coupled with more people, begets more energy. And then we had a national movement and people said, Hey, Obamacare, all these bailouts we're not standing for any of this agenda.
Jenny Beth martin (00:42:13):
And when Rick Santelli had his rant, they called it his rant, the rant heard round the world. And it was a moment. And then we did the tea parties, and then we did the tax day events. And they were moments. And I remember throughout that summer saying, we have to find a way to turn this moment into a movement. How do we turn the moment into a movement? And we did the march on Washington, which was very important. There's so many people there, but it was just voicing our opinion. It wasn't focused. And once we did what you did, I think when we truly were a movement, because at that point we were on issues and we were learning how Congress works. And it went from the moment to a movement. And we've continued to make a difference. And
Michelle Bachman (00:43:07):
I would say this underscores even more how incredibly fast this went and how incredibly successful it was. Because in 2010, there was an election. It was an extremely powerful election. And after that tarp bill and after Obamacare, people were outraged. And so we saw a complete flip and a complete change in elections. And so everything was focused on DC registering with DC politicians, how much people oppose their horrible government takeover agenda. So they move locally and they move locally to work in the precinct level, work in local and state offices, and get rid of people who didn't represent them anymore. So then the elections started happening and people became much more informed. Then also, remember Jenny Beth, people started forming groups to inform themselves about the Constitution because people realized how deficient their own education was in understanding the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, our founding documents, our history. And so people began to rediscover and reacquaint with themselves at this great nation and what is our birthright as American citizens to know the freedoms that we have. And that's why once you know what you have and then you know what you could have, if they're lost, you're highly motivated to hold onto it. So we were motivated and you were a part. The Tea Party movement was a part of trying to, again, bring about the greatest life we could possibly have in America.
Jenny Beth martin (00:44:44):
And that's what Trump also campaigned on. Make America Great Again. That's right. We love this country so much. We want what's best for this country and for our fellow Americans. That's
Michelle Bachman (00:44:57):
Right. And this isn't dress rehearsal. Life isn't dress rehearsal. You get one chance at life. So you want the best life that you possibly can. And just even the last 100 years is replete with evidence of societies who made terrible decisions to their own destruction. And we've been down this road before. We know what totalitarianism looks like when government gets more control and people get less. And so that's what we were trying to hold onto to defeat totalitarianism here in the United States.
Jenny Beth martin (00:45:28):
We still have a lot of work to do
Michelle Bachman (00:45:31):
Every day. We have more work to do than the day before.
Jenny Beth martin (00:45:36):
One of the things that I learned from you, I learned how the committees work and Bill's work and all of that from you and Louis and Steve, but you would hold press conferences. It wasn't just the one, Hey, you've got to come back to Washington. Nice to meet you. And it was nice to meet you. And I learned so much
Michelle Bachman (00:45:58):
From, oh, we had a lot of fun together.
Jenny Beth martin (00:45:59):
We work together. Did. We did. But you would have press conferences and occasionally you'd call and say, we're having a press conference about such and such. Yes. Do you know anyone around the country who is a nurse or a doctor or has been affected by illegal immigration or whatever it might be? And one of the things that I admired most about you is that you'd have a press conference and you would invite your colleagues. One thing,
Michelle Bachman (00:46:26):
And I started a Tea party caucus. You
Jenny Beth martin (00:46:28):
Did. You started a Tea Party
Michelle Bachman (00:46:30):
Caucus. Party caucus. And it was unbelievably well attended because I'll tell you one thing that that Obamacare event at the Capitol did that day with 40,000 people, it showed every Republican member, you better not go against the Tea Party because this is what your constituents want. They don't want Obamacare. So you better listen to people.
Michelle Bachman (00:46:53):
It empowered the people. It did unbelievably empowering. It was taking power away from politicians and giving it back to real people. It was the greatest thing. We weren't asking for permission from the Republican leadership. And I think that's one of the lessons, Jenny Beth, we weren't trying to be rude. We weren't trying to stick our finger in their eye. We were trying to be team players in everywhere way that we could. But when we saw an absence of leadership, we didn't just sit back. We took leadership. And so we took whatever idea came into our head for how we could fight Newt Gingrich, who was a former speaker of the house. He would come and speak once in a while at various meetings that we would have. And he would tell us, what's wrong with you people? Why don't you go down to the well of the house floor at night and speak on the C-span cameras?
Michelle Bachman (00:47:42):
You're going to have minimum 250,000 people and you can get your message out to them. So Louie, Steve, and myself, we would go down and we'd do what was called a special order hour. So we'd make up big posters and we would give speeches and we'd tell people what was going on. Unbelievable the number of people who watched that and were grateful. And then that's when with iPhones, you could take clips of that and then you could send that out to people. We forget how technology changed our world and how we communicated because you have the old fashioned way of communicating with a press conference, which is still suitable. But now you can have your own press conference anywhere in the world with your camera, and you can post it and it can go viral in about two seconds. So technology has really changed how we can speak back to our government and how we can speak about preserving our freedoms.
Jenny Beth martin (00:48:38):
And I think that that's part of the lessons that we've learned. We have to be willing to speak about our freedoms and about preserving the freedoms. We have to know which bills to fight. We have to know what to stand for. And it's important for members of Congress and people who are elected to listen to their constituents and to talk to them. It's not a novel idea. It's crazy that they don't know that already. They
Michelle Bachman (00:49:05):
Weren't weren't. That's what I saw. And I'm not trying to give a broad brush stroke like, gee, I was a great member of Congress and nobody else was. That is not true. That's not what I'm saying. But I think there was a reckoning that happened where members of Congress saw, especially after about 30 of them or so, lost their seats after that 800 billion bailout for the banks that got everybody's attention. And then the Obamacare rally got everybody's attention. And so a tidal wave was forcing not only through DC but all over America. It was empowering people to have a voice to wake up and say, we're losing America, and I don't want to lose America. I love America. I want to hold onto my country and I want to have some confidence that the person that I'm voting for sees it the same way. And so we really started to see a change in a way that we haven't before.
Jenny Beth martin (00:49:58):
And that's what Donald Trump also did. He was going around before he announced he was running for president, he spoke at Tea Party rallies. He spoke at one in Florida and in different places around the country. And when he launched his campaign, he was going to Iowa and taking his helicopter there and talking to people at the state fair and letting them ride the helicopter and interacting with the people.
Michelle Bachman (00:50:22):
He was a blue collar billionaire. That's what he was. He was a real person. I Donald Trump. And he is a incredibly decent person. He's very maligned in who he is, but he is actually very kind, very generous, a very merciful person. And so what he wanted to do is again, bring about the best possible life for the most people. I call him a John Wayne American. He grew up in the 1950s and he believed in America and loved it. And he wanted all of us to hold onto the benefits and the promise that's America.
Jenny Beth martin (00:50:57):
And he still does. And I think that he's going through just pure agony because he loves the country so much and he's doing it
Michelle Bachman (00:51:04):
For us, and he's
Jenny Beth martin (00:51:05):
Doing it for
Michelle Bachman (00:51:05):
Us. He's doing it for us, and he's doing it for America.
Jenny Beth martin (00:51:08):
And then when the world shut down and broke, I just call it breaking because of covid.
Michelle Bachman (00:51:17):
I call it asymmetrical warfare. I call it asymmetrical warfare because it was an attack on America and our freedom, it was because we know now in retrospect that in some sense there was, hoax might be too sharp of a world, but what was foisted on the American people And the unprecedented response to it was as devastating as an asymmetrical warfare attack on our economy, on our personal liberties, on our mental health. It's changed us forever. And that's what people know. Never again. We can never allow government to do that to us again.
Jenny Beth martin (00:51:55):
And that woke up even more. People and doctors, Democrats and Democrats, ap political people, and then people school all of a sudden was around the kitchen table and they saw what was happening in the classrooms. And I was prepared for that moment. I felt like when that happened, everything that I'd been doing for years was there to prepare me for that moment. And we spoke out against very forcefully about what was happening and that we needed to reopen the country and we needed to reopen
Michelle Bachman (00:52:29):
Schools, thank God,
Jenny Beth martin (00:52:31):
And that we needed to listen to doctors. And that there was a special doctor patient relationship and one size government decided decisions don't fit all. Well, I knew all of
Michelle Bachman (00:52:41):
That. It really was a picture of Obamacare, wasn't it? It was. It was was and a picture of what Obamacare was meant to be's, where government decides the Centers for Disease Control, taking their cues from the World Health Organization, the organization that got it wrong every time. This is the disaster we warned about under Obamacare. And tragically, we had to live under that disaster for three years where our constitutional liberties were suspended. People need to understand that our constitutional liberties were suspended. It wasn't until May 11th of last year in 2023 when we finally got our liberties back. To whatever extent we have them back, we must never allow this to happen again to a public emergency of international concern, be announced and pronounced against us so that we lose our rights. And some bureaucrat decides if we get to go to school or go to a house of worship or what we get to do,
Jenny Beth martin (00:53:40):
And legislators we're losing their rights because the bureaucrats and the executives were deciding not even the legislative bodies.
Michelle Bachman (00:53:46):
That's right. And Congress didn't push back. Should have, Congress didn't protect my freedom. They didn't protect your freedom. Where were they? They were awol. And that's why Congress needs to get acquainted again with their job, which is they're supposed to be the ones safeguarding our freedoms. That's why they're there. Not to pursue the agenda of an international organization like the World Economic Forum or the World Health Organization or big special interests, big global banks or BlackRock or other global entities that isn't who Congressmen and women serve. They serve us, the people who elect them.
Jenny Beth martin (00:54:27):
So people who are listening who maybe don't know all this history and have joined our movement because of Covid, I hope that this helps them understand how we got here. Got here. One of the other things that you said that always, it has stuck with me so much, and I tell people this because I meet people from around the country and they say, America's lost. They feel hopeless. And sometimes they'll say, I'm just going to, I think I might just move to another country. And one of the things you said to me is that if we don't defend and protect liberty here in America, no matter where you move in the rest of the world, if we don't protect it here and America doesn't have liberty, wherever you think you're safe, you won't be. And I try to explain that to people. Why did you say that? Because your words will be better than what I can interpret to try to explain to them why is that so important?
Michelle Bachman (00:55:26):
Because freedom is important, and America was founded on freedom. What other nations guarantee? Freedom of speech, freedom of religious expression, freedom of the press. What other nation allows that and makes that the very bedrock of the nation? How many nations today allow their citizens to own guns, to keep and bear arms, or to keep us from having to have the government tell us that we have to quarter soldiers in our home? It's hard to believe, but we actually have politicians saying that we should take illegal aliens into our home now. All of the protections that we've enjoyed, right? To trial by jury, the various amendments. That is the essence of America. What other nation does that? Whether other nation has a nearly 250 year history, how did we get to be so quickly the greatest economic superpower in the world, the greatest military superpower in the world? It's because we were created on a bedrock of freedom. That freedom was born out of suffering. Suffering for religious freedom, people coming to America so that they could enjoy religious freedom and political freedom, political speech freedom. Those freedoms were purchased at a very high price. There is no other nation, Canada. Would you go to Canada for that type of freedom? Would you go to the United Kingdom, the mother country for that kind of freedom? Would you go to Australia for that kind of freedom after the
Jenny Beth martin (00:56:57):
Last three years? No way would you
Michelle Bachman (00:56:59):
Go to New Zealand for that kind of, how many English speaking nations could you go to? There's Belize. Where are we going to go to? If you look around the world, where is that island of freedom? We've been the repository of freedom in the world. And so what are we going to do? Give it up? What are we going to do? Not fight. Every other generation had to fight. This is our battle. So now this is our time. So we look ahead, we look forward. Prior generations looked at us, Jenny Beth, and they fought so that we could sit here today and talk across a microphone, but we have to look forward too because there is no guarantee. Ronald Reagan probably said it best. Really? He said it better than anyone when he said It's only one generation, one generation away from seeing a sunset to our freedoms.
Michelle Bachman (00:57:49):
As I sit here today as an aging woman, looking back on my life and looking at my nation, I described my children today, the freedoms that I had when I was younger, where we'd see apparel to those freedoms today, and I'm urging them. I'm trying to teach them and letting them know that you can't take this for granted. This is it. We are a very unusual nation. You don't get a nation like this anywhere else. Do you think you're going to go and reform communist China? Do you think you're going to go and reform communist Russia or communist Cuba? The word communist is in front of a good deal of nations at the United Nations, and then you have the Islamic Republics. You have 57 Islamic Republics. How many free democracies are there in the world? You have Israel, which is a democratic country. Look at the attack they're under in a very difficult neighborhood. So where do you go for freedom? Freedom is here
Jenny Beth martin (00:58:50):
And if we don't maintain it, then one of those countries, communist China or communist Russia or some other country is going to be the superpower of the world. They will extinguish freedom
Michelle Bachman (00:59:02):
Everywhere they will. I think one of the most sobering stories that you and I may have talked about is that somewhere along the mid 1940s, the British Empire had been the economic and military superpower of the world, and after World War I, they began diminishing in their power until the mid 1940s and just wordlessly. There was no formal ceremony, but very silently, the British Empire passed the baton of superpower status economically and military to the United States of America. The next transfer of power will not be as painless as quiet and as peaceful as the transfer of power from Britain to the United States. The next one will be violent. It'll be impoverishing and it will be one that the world won't want to witness. So that should give us even greater incentive, incentive to fight for this. We won't find this anywhere else, so it's worth fighting for and worth preserving. Absolutely.
Jenny Beth martin (01:00:01):
Michelle, thank you so much. Thank you for everything you've done for our country, for this movement that we're a part of, and just the love you and passion you have for America. We need more people to learn from you and to be inspired by your leadership and to step up and be leaders. Well,
Michelle Bachman (01:00:21):
You're so kind. Thank you. I'm a cog in the wheel. That's not false Humility. I'm a cog in the wheel. You are a cog in the wheel. Each of us are. We take up our position wherever we are and if we each do our job, it's going to work out.
Jenny Beth martin (01:00:35):
Thank you very much. Thanks
Michelle Bachman (01:00:37):
Jenny Beth.
Narrator (01:00:38):
The Jenny Beth Show is hosted by Jenny Beth Martin, produced by Kevin Mohan and directed by Luke Livingston. The Jenny Beth Show is a production of Tea Party Patriots action. For more information, visit tea party patriots.org
Jenny Beth martin (01:00:57):
Party. If you like this episode, let me know by hitting the light button or leaving a comment or a five star review, and if you want to be the first to know every time we drop a new episode, be sure to subscribe and turn on notifications for whichever platform you're listening on. If you do these simple things, it will help the podcast grow and I'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much.